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Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

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Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from the Netherlands, where separate bike lanes are the norm. The thought of having to share the road with cars, especially in a place where people aren't used to bike traffic, terrifies me. Also, IIRC when a car hits pedestrian or bike, the car is always the "guilty" party because pedestrians or bikes are never a safety threat to cars (you can still be acquitted if it is clear that there's no way you could have…

The thought of having to share the road with cars, especially in a place where people aren't used to bike traffic, terrifies me It should terrify you. It's terrifying . I know dozens of people who regularly commute by bike in the ostensibly bike-friendly city of Seattle. Nearly all of them have been hit by a car at some point.

Hmm, is Seattle an "ostensibly bike-friendly" city?

Granted it's probably not as bad as many other American cities, but for all Seattle's often rather liberal laid-back nature, Seattleites also seem to lovvvve their cars, and the state of public infrastructure to reflect that.

I used to bike a lot in Seattle about 25 years ago, and well ... I always felt very alone, and often very nervous. I felt part of a fringe. My impression was that although there generally wasn't the sort of overt "kill bicyclists!" aggression you might find elsewhere, Seattle was still very much a car-focused city, and that few concessions were made to bicyclists, other than the random token gesture (bike racks on buses, etc). There seemed to be essentially zero real bike infrastructure.

Maybe things have changed in the last few decades, I dunno. I haven't noticed much obvious change when I've visited since, although the bike cops are great (they're the friendliest police I've ever encountered!).

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#402
post #389
post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not considering automobiles as inherently more "valid" participants of traffic than bicycles. I just consider any road where two types of vehicles of very different sizes which behave very differently to be an inherently unsafe and inefficient road for all participants. Obviously, the occupants of the larger vehicles are much safer in collisions with the smaller vehicles, but that's not my primary consideration.…

I'm not considering big rig trucks as inherently more "valid" participants of traffic than passenger cars. I just consider any road where two types of vehicles of very different sizes which behave very differently to be an inherently unsafe and inefficient road for all participants. Obviously, the occupants of the larger vehicles are much safer in collisions with the smaller vehicles, but that's not my primary consid…

Tractor trailers do not behave very differently than normal automobiles on freeways, and they're generally not allowed on smaller roads.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, since I can't edit the comment any more: my whole point was that the threats are not equivalent , and describing the situation as "car vs bike" as if they are on equal terms is wrong. Instead people are getting all anal about the use of "never" and "always", and use far-fetched examples where a car can be threatened by a bike when atttempting to avoid running over it and crashing into something else. Way to direc…

That 4.7x can probably be completely attributed to all the safety equipment that protects the person in a car. A more valid metric would be accidents (not injuries) per vehicle mile traveled.

No, it wouldn't, because that's not what we're discussing. The discussion was danger one vehicle poses to the other, and the only significant cause for bike fatalities is car accidents - there are no chasms to fall in in the flattest country in the world, and the speed at which one travels on a bike is much slower so much less likely to be fatal in case of a crash with a stationary object. So this is a very real metric of how dangerous bikes are to cars and vice versa.

EDIT: And even then it's skewed in favour of the car, because for cars the fatality rate is more likely due to crashes with other cars.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#404
post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i understand you're being snarky, or perhaps willfully defiant/facetiously ignorant despite your common-sense understanding of the difference, and you probably are a bicyclist, but a car that slows to an almost-stop is much different than a bicycle that just completely blows through it at full-speed without even slowing down, which is pretty much what all bikes do here in southern california. where I live, anyone who…

Meta: go! Interesting... I've noticed your username above several rather anti-social comments in several different threads over the last day or so. I wonder why. /Meta To be honest, I don't think alxndr was being snarky. I see plenty of drivers plow through stop signs at 5-10 mph. I also see plenty of people on bikes plow through stop signs at 5-10 mph. Both are in the wrong, but the fact that the person on the bike…

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Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#405
post #250
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be negligent on a bicycle and a vast majority of the life and limb you are risking is your own. Be negligent in a car and you're putting in mortal danger every other driver and cyclist on the road as well as every pedestrian in the vicinity. The difference between 25lb of metal powered by glutes and quads and 1.5 tons of metal with a tank of flammable liquid and a 200 hp engine is important.

> Be negligent on a bicycle and a vast majority of the life and limb you are risking is your own. I don't think that's true. I haven't personally witnessed any accidents, and I admittedly don't have any data to cite, but I have witnessed many bicyclists cause complete chaos in busy traffic.

I think it's true, depending just how vast "vast" is interpreted. But "I'm taking a bigger risk myself" doesn't excuse putting others at risk.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cycling on its own is very safe, it's the cars that are dangerous.

True, but that's a silly assertion. Cars by themselves are pretty safe. It's the other cars that cause problems. Since the cars are there, biking is more dangerous than being in another car.

> Cars by themselves are pretty safe. It's the other cars that cause problems.

Tell that to Michael Hastings, I'm sure he'll be thrilled to hear the news.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's appropriate to consider bicycles as "first-class vehicles" in all situations, namely in the dangerous situations you list (speed limits >~25mph, multiple automobile lanes, etc.). Driving a motor vehicle on a road is a privilege. This privilege is represented by a motor vehicle operator's license, which may be revoked by the state for a variety of reasons. Riding a bicycle on a non-Interstate public…

There's a middle ground. In Boulder at least, a bicyclist can be ticketed for running a red light, going the wrong way on one-way etc.

Is that not common? In Denmark where we have a lot of bikes, we have rules specifically written for bicyclists.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#408
Sad truth is that if you get hit and hurt or killed while riding a bike, chances of guilty part being punished are almost non-existent. In some places people will actively try to run you from the road, almost everywhere you gona get doored time to time. Thats just the reality of biking in a city in North America.

Still chances of death or a really bad accident are relatively low, and biking is way more fun then public transit. I have not been doored or hit in a few years so I continue with it, but I am also very defensive while riding basically assuming that every car will try to run me from the road so I try as much as I can to give myself space to react. Remember police do not give a shit at all, so your life is in your hands and those of random fucks trying to shave 5 seconds from getting to wherever they are going.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#409
post #408

Sad truth is that if you get hit and hurt or killed while riding a bike, chances of guilty part being punished are almost non-existent. In some places people will actively try to run you from the road, almost everywhere you gona get doored time to time. Thats just the reality of biking in a city in North America. Still chances of death or a really bad accident are relatively low, and biking is way more fun then publi…

Is this true? If someone is killed by a car while biking, the car driver won't get time in jail?

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#410
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought we were talking about whether or not bikes can be a massive threat to cars. I have been paying attention in a city for a while. I have seen the situation you describe, but it's rare in my experience, even with SF supposedly full of reckless fixie-riders. Dangerous driving is far more common in my experience.

Hmm, yeah, scrolling up, there was more than a little hyperbole on both sides at the root of this thread. I agree a bike is not a "a massive threat to a car"; this doesn't mean it's okay for people to ride recklessly, or that they're not endangering others when they do. And dangerous driving is probably more common (certainly by number of instances), and it should be condemned as well.

I certainly agree with all of that.
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