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Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

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Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#361

Post by beachstartup »

alxndr wrote: post #348
beachstartup wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

anecdotally, i can't even remember the last time i saw a bicyclist stop at a stop sign. even the guys in their $10k road bikes and full outfits, who ostensibly take bicyclig VERY seriously, just blow through stop signs like they weren't even there. sometimes even stop LIGHTS if it's a t-stop. especially when they're riding in their large groups. and sometimes they even ride on the wrong side of the road (LOL) i live…

If we're going anecdotes, I can't remember the last time I saw a car stop at a stop sign either. http://www.cyclelicio.us/2013/stop-sign-compliance-temecula-...

i understand you're being snarky, or perhaps willfully defiant/facetiously ignorant despite your common-sense understanding of the difference, and you probably are a bicyclist, but a car that slows to an almost-stop is much different than a bicycle that just completely blows through it at full-speed without even slowing down, which is pretty much what all bikes do here in southern california.

where I live, anyone who pays attention realizes that most bicyclists are either casual, ignorant weekend riders or very serious road bikers who just simply don't give two shits about the law. commuters who follow the law are VERY rare.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#362

Post by dllthomas »

king_jester wrote: post #344
dllthomas wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a car swerves to avoid a cyclist and hits another car...

Then the car serves as the immediately threat to the other car, no the cyclist. This why you are supposed to drive defensively when operating a motor vehicle, so sudden changes in a situation doesn't cause you to crash into someone or something.

When you're behind the wheel of a car, yes. When you're around a car, no.

Even if someone's driving defensively, sudden changes in the environment lead to a more dangerous situation. If they're driving defensively, hopefully they can deal with it, but that is no reason to create dangerous situations in the first place.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#363

Post by alxndr »

beachstartup wrote: post #361
alxndr wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're going anecdotes, I can't remember the last time I saw a car stop at a stop sign either. http://www.cyclelicio.us/2013/stop-sign-compliance-temecula-...

i understand you're being snarky, or perhaps willfully defiant/facetiously ignorant despite your common-sense understanding of the difference, and you probably are a bicyclist, but a car that slows to an almost-stop is much different than a bicycle that just completely blows through it at full-speed without even slowing down, which is pretty much what all bikes do here in southern california. where I live, anyone who…

I'm not trying to be snarky -- I rarely see cars stop for stop signs; I normally see cyclists slow down at stop signs, and I rarely see any cyclists completely blow through them. (I also rarely see cars completely blow through stop signs.)

My common-sense understanding of the difference is that a cyclist can more readily hear what is happening near an intersection, has fewer visual obstacles to see what is near an intersection, and is often already moving slower than a car. That makes me feel that a cyclist rolling through a stop sign is far less dangerous than a car doing the same.

My experience has been in SF/Oakland/Berkeley.

Anyway, the reason I added that link in the earlier comment was to illustrate my frustration with the "all cyclists break laws all the time, they need to be safer like cars" fable -- the article links to a study that found that by 1996, only 1% of cars stopped at the stop sign being observed. Of course there are cyclists who break laws, but there are far more drivers who break laws, and they are the more dangerous offenders.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#364

Post by jwildeboer »

Disgusting that so many post about what bicycle riders are to blame for instead of getting together here and work hard on identifying the driver of the car that killed Seth. Community, show your power and do something good in all this evil.

A hit and run driver ranks very low on my acceptance level. As a fellow Red Hatter that knew Seth I want to have the driver identified and brought to justice.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#365

Post by alxndr »

dllthomas wrote: post #350
alxndr wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will agree that a relatively slow-moving bicycle on a road with fast-moving cars is indeed a dangerous situation for everyone. And I would agree that having similar speed vehicles together seems safer. However, in places with vehicles going differing speeds, I would put the onus of safety on the faster vehicles.

What was being discussed was cyclists behaving recklessly. Imagine a cyclist blowing through a red light at the bottom of a hill, where they're going ~20ish. Cross traffic with a green light isn't necessarily going to see them until the last minute even if the cross traffic is moving at an otherwise safe speed. Pay attention in a city for a while, and you'll see things like this, and it rightly pisses off both driver…

I thought we were talking about whether or not bikes can be a massive threat to cars.

I have been paying attention in a city for a while. I have seen the situation you describe, but it's rare in my experience, even with SF supposedly full of reckless fixie-riders. Dangerous driving is far more common in my experience.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#367

Post by malandrew »

lutorm wrote: post #155
malandrew wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upvote for staying near the center of the road, but remember that that is only permitted on 14-15+ ft wide lanes (don't worry, the overwhelming majority of city lanes are not this wide). If the lane is wider than that, you should stay to the right (but you are within your right to stay outside the door zone)

IIRC, CA law says bicyclists should ride as far to the right as practicable . I think it even says bicyclists may be justified in taking the entire lane if conditions so require.

There are several conditions that allow the bicyclists to ride in the middle of the lane and ignore the "stay as far to the right as practicle" rule. The most common of them is the "substandard width lane", which has been established to be any lane narrower than about 14-15 ft

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#368

Post by malandrew »

mindslight wrote: post #239
lutorm wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, CA law says bicyclists should ride as far to the right as practicable . I think it even says bicyclists may be justified in taking the entire lane if conditions so require.

Also, it's prudent to consider one of those conditions to be aggressive behavior from a car behind you (horn, etc). They're proudly boasting of their non-understanding of how to fluidly pass non-lane-width traffic, so it's just safer to take the full lane and ensure they'll either change lanes or wait for a lull in oncoming traffic instead of half-passing then cutting into you.

Exactly. One of my accidents was when a taxi driver honked at me, tried to overtake and hit the front of my bike and pulled in my front tire when trying to aggressively merge back into the lane I was in. Completely destroyed the front end of my bike. I was able to jump off the bike away from the vehicle to avoid getting hurt.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#369

Post by malandrew »

alxndr wrote: post #247
malandrew wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty obvious when a bicyclist is at fault and they are often held responsible when they cause an accident. In the case of most city accidents, police routinely pull video from nearby buildings to establish fault. In fact, just this morning a lady got hit and put in the ICU at the corner of King St and 3rd in San Francisco, right near the ballpark. Yolanda, the lady who manages the front desk, was reviewing the…

> It's pretty obvious when a bicyclist is at fault and they are often held responsible when they cause an accident. In the case of most city accidents, police routinely pull video from nearby buildings to establish fault. This is completely untrue, at least in NYC. "Historically, nearly half of motorists who kill a New York City pedestrian or cyclist do not receive so much as a citation for careless driving." http://…

I thought we were talking about bicyclists being held accountable, not motorists?

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#370

Post by malandrew »

ejs wrote: post #154
malandrew wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation. I mean I know it does happen, but I'm extremely skeptical of the use of the word "often" here.

http://www.enhancements.org/download/trb/1636-011.PDF "The most interesting result of the analysis was the finding that sidewalk cyclists have higher event rates on roads than nonsidewalk cyclists."

Nothing in that paper supports this statement: "People are often killed riding on sidewalks..."
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