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Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

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Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#371

Post by malandrew »

ineedtosleep wrote: post #234
oinksoft wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had somebody follow me aggressively (in a car) with seeming intent to main before and it is a terrifying experience. They pursued me at 70mph in a 30mph zone. It was my second day driving a manual transmission and I accidentally tapped my horn with an old Ford Explorer behind me (no cars in front) as I was trying to shift into first gear to turn left out of a lot. A man exited the SUV at a red light and I ran…

Honestly, those examples are great reasons why I would support some kind of form of publicly shaming those drivers (via some kind of www.thisiswhycyclistsdie.net blog): Get cyclists to be diligent and record their rides and post the obvious asshole drivers and their plates. Yes, there's probably giant privacy implications there, but fuck it. They're trying to kill people out there.

They are being recorded in a public space. AFAIK there are no privacy violations involved in recording them on public roads.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#372

Post by malandrew »

akgerber wrote: post #223
caycep wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that sounds illegal - could you have reported his license? Something under assault using a vehicle or attempted manslaughter?

It is illegal. Cops, in almost all cases, don't care.

What if you have video to prove it? I wish it were possible to send such videos to the insurer of any vehicle. I know that with taxis, you can call up the dispatch company to get the insurance company of a vehicle, but I don't know if there is a way to find the insurance company of a private vehicle.

Showing this kind of behavior could prompt their insurance to drop them or possibly increase their premium.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#373

Post by baddox »

vanderZwan wrote: post #358
baddox wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that pedestrians are less threatening because they rarely walk in traffic (both because it's illegal, and because it's obviously dangerous). But for bicyclists, it's legal, and apparently the danger isn't enough to stop a lot of people.

The way you describe it, my impression is that the real problem is that you are not considering bikes as participants of traffic, but obstacles in the way of your car.

I'm not considering automobiles as inherently more "valid" participants of traffic than bicycles. I just consider any road where two types of vehicles of very different sizes which behave very differently to be an inherently unsafe and inefficient road for all participants. Obviously, the occupants of the larger vehicles are much safer in collisions with the smaller vehicles, but that's not my primary consideration. I just think the roads, or at the very least the lanes, should be dedicated to only bikes or only automobiles. Since there are far more automobiles than bicycles on most roads, if building new infrastructure is out of the question, I think it makes sense to not allow bikes to share the lanes. This isn't a condemnation of bicycle commuting, but rather a basic appeal to safety and organization, just like pedestrians are not allowed to share lanes with automobiles. The current situation on most roads, where a small number of small slow-moving bikes occupy lanes in the middle of a sea of automobiles, is just a disaster waiting to happen (and in big cities, it happens all the time).

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#374

Post by akgerber »

tylermac1 wrote: post #179
xanderstrike wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bicycle could have been, and is in many cities (see Copenhagen or Amsterdam). The decision to include the automobile as "a staple of growth in modern society" is the reason it isn't a drop in fit. We designed our cities around dangerous, pollution producing power tools, and in doing so squashed out any hope of implementing something better. If you think about it, the only reason the bicycle isn't a safe alternati…

I agree that in a dense urban environment, the bicycle could be a much better fit for personal transportation. But as someone who has lived in smaller Midwestern cities, many more lives that some people care to think about depend on the automobile as a livelihood. Even in smaller metro areas, a bicycle would not be a viable option in the least. Cities like Copenhagen and Amsterdam precede automobiles by hundreds of y…

This is Rotterdam at the end of World War II: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/Rot...

Modern Rotterdam was built almost entirely after World War II, the same era that many American Sunbelt cities were built to their current size. In Rotterdam, the mode share is: 5% pedestrian, 14% cycling, 25% transit, 56% automobile. This is very auto-oriented for the Netherlands, but still more than twice the 6% bike mode share of Portland, Oregon, a mid-sized American city famous here for loving bikes.

That illustrates quite well that America's near-exclusive automobile use in many cities is a matter of city planning and development policies in this country (wide, high-speed roads optimized for moving the maximum number of cars, minimum parking requirements, minimum lot size requirements and setbacks, strict zoning laws separating residential from commercial uses and single-family homes from apartments) mandating a suburban form that makes non-automobile transportation difficult or impossible. It's not simply a question of the age of a city.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#375

Post by malandrew »

baddox wrote: post #299
malandrew wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In San Francisco, according to CSC 21202, the bicyclist is allowed full use of lanes. The important clause to pay attention to is clause (c). The most important part of that clause is the use of the term "substandard width lane", which although not defined in the statute, has been established via jurisprudence to be approximately 14-15 ft. Many many rightmost lanes in SF are not 14+ ft wide, meaning that on most road…

This is part of what I mean by "I can see both sides." I don't approve of an automobile drivers acting aggressively and dangerously toward a bicyclist, but I also don't think it's reasonable for bicyclists to significantly impact the flow of traffic (and even just letting 5 cars pile up before moving over is a major impediment to traffic). In short, I really don't think that roads with significant automobile traffic…

Letting 5 cars pile up behind you can happen in the course of a few seconds to several minutes. Those are two totally different circumstances. The former is unlikely to be a major impediment, while the latter probably is. On some roads, if you try to pull over to the side every time more than 1-2 cars are behind you, you'd never get to your destination. I'd say it's reasonable enough to move over to the side ever 2-3 blocks.

Most cars are blocked by other cars on the road and you don't see cars honking at other cars nearly as often as it happens to bicyclists (except maybe in NYC... hehe)

Also, most of the time the substandard width lane issue is only a factor within cities. Cars shouldn't really be traveling that quickly within a city, except maybe on elevated highways.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#376

Post by alxndr »

malandrew wrote: post #369
alxndr wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's pretty obvious when a bicyclist is at fault and they are often held responsible when they cause an accident. In the case of most city accidents, police routinely pull video from nearby buildings to establish fault. This is completely untrue, at least in NYC. "Historically, nearly half of motorists who kill a New York City pedestrian or cyclist do not receive so much as a citation for careless driving." http://…

I thought we were talking about bicyclists being held accountable, not motorists?

I was responding to the idea that it is obvious who is at fault, when in fact the bicyclist is usually blamed. (Yes, my insinuation is that the bicyclist is not usually at fault.)

As for "police routinely pull video ... to establish fault" -- this is just one example, but recently in DC there was a bike-and-car crash in which a surveillance video proved the cyclist was not at fault, but the police refused to even look at it: http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/19284/it-must-have-...

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#377

Post by akgerber »

thebordella wrote: post #320
_delirium wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could tell you about the years I lived in Houston or Los Angeles if you prefer. The situation for pedestrians there was not any better. I've also, more relevant to this article, spent a little time in Raleigh, though I haven't lived there. There is about a 2 block by 8 block area of downtown Raleigh that is reasonably safe for pedestrians. Maybe somewhere like Portland is different; I haven't been there.

I don't find any difficulty when being a pedestrian in L.A., besides actual distances. As a pedestrian you don't need to "share the road", only to cross it. Sidewalks seem plentiful, even if underutilized, and most road crossings have been well marked and signaled. Cars have generally been respectful when I cross. Cycling here would certainly make me more nervous, outside of the corridors with well-spaced dedicated b…

LA has 4000 hit-and-runs a year, including 100 pedestrians killed (in 2009). The police department doesn't do a very good job of investigating. http://www.laweekly.com/2012-12-06/news/los-angeles-hit-and-...

I am willing to bet very few drivers will stop for you at an unmarked crosswalk, as well.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#378

Post by akgerber »

baddox wrote: post #288
gamache wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's appropriate to consider bicycles as "first-class vehicles" in all situations, namely in the dangerous situations you list (speed limits >~25mph, multiple automobile lanes, etc.). Driving a motor vehicle on a road is a privilege. This privilege is represented by a motor vehicle operator's license, which may be revoked by the state for a variety of reasons. Riding a bicycle on a non-Interstate public…

Do you think it's reasonable that bicyclists are free to travel on most roads without any education or licensing? Why is it that pedestrians are banned from traveling on roads, bicyclists are free to do so with no licensing whatsoever, and automobile drivers require a license?

Pedestrians are not banned from travelling on roads lacking sidewalks.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#379

Post by akgerber »

mlbmlb wrote: post #305
alxndr wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The roads were built for cars. This is untrue. "The coming of the railways in the 1830s killed off the stage-coach trade; almost all rural roads reverted to low-level local use. Cyclists were the first group in a generation to use roads and were the first to push for high-quality sealed surfaces and were the first to lobby for national funding and leadership for roads. Without cyclists, motorists wouldn't have hit…

Because the majority of roads nowadays in use were built in 1830... /sarcasm Here, even 70 years ago, several roads were just a dusty path through fields and many of them didn't exist yet. When they were actually built as a road, it was done for cars, buses, trucks and it was done from steep consumption taxes on gas and later from country-wide toll imposed on cars. Of course, YMMV in your country. But I really think…

Local roads, which bicyclists mostly use, are generally paid for by property taxes or other local taxes, at least in the US. Only highways are paid for by federal gas taxes, and since that tax has been declining in real terms since 1993, highway funding also comes from general tax revenue.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#380

Post by malandrew »

vanderZwan wrote: post #357
vanderZwan wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I tend to agree, but I can see both sides. Like I said in the other comment: a bike is never a threat to a car. A car is always a threat to a bike. While your points are valid, saying that that is looking at "both sides" is an inappropriate way of describing the situation.

Ok, since I can't edit the comment any more: my whole point was that the threats are not equivalent , and describing the situation as "car vs bike" as if they are on equal terms is wrong. Instead people are getting all anal about the use of "never" and "always", and use far-fetched examples where a car can be threatened by a bike when atttempting to avoid running over it and crashing into something else. Way to direc…

That 4.7x can probably be completely attributed to all the safety equipment that protects the person in a car. A more valid metric would be accidents (not injuries) per vehicle mile traveled.
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