The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95% • Hacker News Board

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#141

Post by incision » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 4:37 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #109

incision wrote: post #28

As I've mentioned on HN before, I dropped out of high school and found my into a job in technology by way of a GED, public libraries and work as a landscaper, in the DC area coincidentally. Everything mentioned in this article rings to true me. The transition traditional low-end jobs to middle-aged people and closed-circle of internships and job programs in particular. That said, the first step towards mitigating thi…

Well... We shouldn't engage in wishful thinking either. Even if they graduate high school, the unemployment rate that awaits them is still pretty dismal. I believe the employment/population ratio for young black males "increased" to 33% for high school graduates... Only the Bureau of Labor Statistics doesn't count incarcerated people in that ratio. So if you throw in that 1 in 9 young black males who are incarcerated…

>We shouldn't engage in wishful thinking either.

Of course not. That's why I refer to staying in school as a "first step" as opposed to a solution.

>But since the unemployment rate for whites with no high school diploma hoovers around 12%... it's actually MUCH better just to be white, than it is to graduate high school.

I'd expect it's even better to be born rich and well-connected. Equality and the distribution of wealth and influence are important topics, but they're the last thing anyone who's actively struggling should be concerned with.

>For blacks, especially males, I think the only way education really helps them in a material fashion, is if they can manage to graduate college.

Both the statistics you provided and my experience disagree with this notion.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#142

Post by prostoalex » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 5:26 PM UTC

readme wrote: post #111

prostoalex wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't you have two problems then?

Why, is the law going to be updated with a regular expression?

1) Increased unemployment in the adult segment, due to teenagers stealing their jobs.

2) Need for government agency to enforce the age requirements. Modeled after immigration authority, such agency would need to be able to raid the businesses in order to do age verification, to ensure that teenager-compatible jobs are not given to adults. Also, such agency needs to ensure that people are fired on the day they reach 20th birthday, and thus lose the "teen" status.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#143

Post by WesternStar » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 8:24 PM UTC

cpursley wrote: post #135

sequoia wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason black youths have high unemployment rates is their (typically unwed) mothers already live off a combination of section 8 housing, food stamps, medicaid, other govt. programs and whatever they can get under the table to keep their reportable income low. Got a source, there, David Duke? FYI low-income/poor black youth ≠ all black youth.

Not all, I didn't say all. The source is my current home in Georgia and my wife's experience as a HS teacher.

Having lived in Georgia, I want to say acouple things. First you need to know that your beliefs and the beliefs of your wife are the reason that jobs that actually pay well will never come to Georgia. You can't educate what amounts to 30% of your population give or take if you think they are morally bankrupt. There is a reason corps move jobs to georgia when they want to pay less.

Having gone to school in the south I will tell you that it is a really strange place. There was an expectation that as black person you would be stupid. Most of the black people I knew played along. I don't really get it.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#144

Post by tomjen3 » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 9:05 PM UTC

saalweachter wrote: post #84

cpeterso wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine a huge number of people on Basic Income would just blow all the money on the first day of each month on drugs and frivolous consumer goods. That said, I do think society has an obligation to provide a basic guarantee of life's needs: education, food and income, and health care. There is only so much society or any individual can do for someone if they, given the tools and opportunity, choose to waste it.

What do you mean by "a huge number"? Do you mean "a huge number" or do you mean "a huge fraction"? The difference is important for policy decisions. 25% of Americans are food insecure each year. If you gave them enough money to not be (we sort of try to do this: about 15% of the US population received food stamps at some point last year, but 15% is less than 25%, and the monetary amount is sometimes too small to prev…

Apparently I am the only one who wouldn't be okay totally okay with tens of thousands of cheaters.

Anyway you could reduce that number drastically by offering basic income in the form of goods: a bed to sleep in, clothing to wear and food to eat. Nobody is going to cheat themself to the ability to sleep in two beds, and you can only eat so much food.

This might be more expensive, but I feel like a program with tens of thousands of cheaters would be a non-starter (and will die as soon as fox gets the story).

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#145

Post by tomjen3 » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 9:09 PM UTC

mjfl wrote: post #11

What jobs are you going to give them? Cashiers these days have Bachelors degrees in Communications. It's the inflation in the system. America is not producing as many factories as it used to, manual labor jobs in construction are hard enough to get. If you drop out, it's going to be tough to get a job.

My windows needs to be cleaned, my hair cut and my bicycle oiled, cleaned and anti-rust sprayed.

You don't need HS to do either of those things, though I would insists on a clean background check if you are to go into my home.

Oh and my non-existent dog could use hypotetical walk to.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#146

Post by tomjen3 » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 9:10 PM UTC

gboudrias wrote: post #70

ne0codex wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Shouldn't this be used as incentive for parents and families within those communities to promote school attendance and encourage academic performance?

I can't speak for the US, but here in Canada everyone is already trying pretty much their hardest to make youth stay in school. Doesn't always work, and we need to have alternative solutions (/jobs) for those who do drop out.

Isn't that what GEDs are for in the US?

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#147

Post by tomjen3 » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 9:14 PM UTC

prostoalex wrote: post #142

readme wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why, is the law going to be updated with a regular expression?

1) Increased unemployment in the adult segment, due to teenagers stealing their jobs. 2) Need for government agency to enforce the age requirements. Modeled after immigration authority, such agency would need to be able to raid the businesses in order to do age verification, to ensure that teenager-compatible jobs are not given to adults. Also, such agency needs to ensure that people are fired on the day they reach 2…

I don't think you need the second part - the only requirement is that the older people be payed more.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#148

Post by cpursley » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 10:52 PM UTC

WesternStar wrote: post #143

cpursley wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all, I didn't say all. The source is my current home in Georgia and my wife's experience as a HS teacher.

Having lived in Georgia, I want to say acouple things. First you need to know that your beliefs and the beliefs of your wife are the reason that jobs that actually pay well will never come to Georgia. You can't educate what amounts to 30% of your population give or take if you think they are morally bankrupt. There is a reason corps move jobs to georgia when they want to pay less. Having gone to school in the south I…

"First you need to know that your beliefs and the beliefs of your wife are the reason that jobs that actually pay well will never come to Georgia."

How do you claim know what we believe??? Our experience does not mean we believe, or endorse the current status quo of the situation on the ground. But it really is the situation here. A lot of black youth in single parent welfare section 8 households with little hope for the future. From seeing it first hand, I don't believe basic income via the government is the answer.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#149

Post by prostoalex » Tue, Jul 09, 2013, 1:23 AM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #147

prostoalex wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Increased unemployment in the adult segment, due to teenagers stealing their jobs. 2) Need for government agency to enforce the age requirements. Modeled after immigration authority, such agency would need to be able to raid the businesses in order to do age verification, to ensure that teenager-compatible jobs are not given to adults. Also, such agency needs to ensure that people are fired on the day they reach 2…

I don't think you need the second part - the only requirement is that the older people be payed more.

If they have not received raises after spending many years with the business, then it's unlikely that their years of experience matter.

And if their years of experience do not matter, they would be replaced with lower-cost younger labor well in advance of them reaching particular age group considered "older".

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#150

Post by saalweachter » Tue, Jul 09, 2013, 2:43 AM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #144

saalweachter wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "a huge number"? Do you mean "a huge number" or do you mean "a huge fraction"? The difference is important for policy decisions. 25% of Americans are food insecure each year. If you gave them enough money to not be (we sort of try to do this: about 15% of the US population received food stamps at some point last year, but 15% is less than 25%, and the monetary amount is sometimes too small to prev…

Apparently I am the only one who wouldn't be okay totally okay with tens of thousands of cheaters. Anyway you could reduce that number drastically by offering basic income in the form of goods: a bed to sleep in, clothing to wear and food to eat. Nobody is going to cheat themself to the ability to sleep in two beds, and you can only eat so much food. This might be more expensive, but I feel like a program with tens o…

It's OK to be outraged by huge numbers even if they're small fractions. Personally (unrelated to the current topic), I'm outraged by the idea of executing even a single innocent person; it doesn't matter if 99.9% of convicted, executed murderers are in truth murdering unrepentant, if one person is executed wrongly, that's a big fucking deal.

But I gotta disagree with you on goods versus money. Trying to provide goods to everyone is inefficient and wasteful. It's central planning, and the central planners don't know what the situation is on the ground, and can't customize the plan to every situation. Free beds, great. What if the guy already has a bed? What if he's got a friend whose couch he can crash on and can do without a bed for a year or three? What's he supposed to do with it? So it goes with everything. If you gave him the money instead, he could do something else with it. Buy booze and heroin, maybe, but he could also spend it on welding classes or a netbook, get a job, advance himself.

Just giving people money is the essence of American socialism. Planned economies have vouchers for bread, vouchers for beds, vouchers for cars. And it works like shit, because the planners can't plan for everything, can't adapt to the situation on the ground. America has Social Security. We send you a check, and you spend it on whatever your greatest need is. It's worlds better, because the people with the most information are making the decisions on how to allocate resources. It's capitalism-tastic.