The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95% • Hacker News Board

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#131

Post by quaunaut » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 11:52 AM UTC

GauntletWizard wrote: post #113

quaunaut wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see it getting used by a majority- but 10, 20% maybe? Sure. There's a lot of shame that comes with being jobless, and as much as you think we're more entitled as a culture, people who go years without work, while living in poverty or just above it, don't feel entitled for much. However, many of them are incredibly close to their family or friends- after all, what's the point of life if you don't have anything…

There's no shame in being jobless - Not for these people, it's a societal norm. There's no shame in asking for government handouts, blowing it on booze and drugs and gold chains and other luxuries, then complaining that you can't make rent and can't buy food. There is no shame whatsoever - just a continuing resentment that they are owed something by society that is not being provided, like everything else they have e…

I'm sorry, but this rings of such blatant ignorance that I couldn't help but respond.

Have you ever even been to a poor neighborhood, in your life? I've lived there. Everyone I knew growing up lived there. Poverty doesn't work that way. Blowing your money on booze and drugs and gold chains and other luxuries? Christ, you barely have enough money for food, let alone all of that. I don't mean "barely enough money to buy food after all of the other things", I mean that tonight you're having a can of chicken noodle soup, just like the last three nights in a row, so that on Friday you can go to McDonalds for two or three items off the dollar menu as a treat. The people you're talking about are dozens of steps above the people I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the people for whom if they made even $10k a year they'd be some of the happiest people on earth. There are millions of them, in America. And Christ, no shame in asking for government handouts? WHAT government handouts? Are you at all, even one iota, familiar with the welfare system of the United States? It's incredibly hard to get much of anything beyond for a few months unless you have some kind of job. A few years if you're a pregnant woman. And when you're jobless for this many years, well, too bad.

I'm sorry, but you couldn't possibly know less about what you're talking about. Your statement smacks of overt racism, and if you seriously claim "Well hey white people get gold chains too", I just hope you realize that you're not fooling a soul.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#132

Post by cpursley » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 12:40 PM UTC

hooande wrote: post #38

This seems like another argument for Basic Income. A lot of young, jobless people (males especially) isn't only a moral problem, but it's a sociological problem. The young jobless commit more crimes, are more likely to join gangs and are generally more of a drain on society. Giving them an income would remove the social pressure to constantly look for jobs that aren't actually there. People could focus on internships…

"This seems like another argument for Basic Income."

I stopped reading there.

The reason black youths have high unemployment rates is their (typically unwed) mothers already live off a combination of section 8 housing, food stamps, medicaid, other govt. programs and whatever they can get under the table to keep their reportable income low.

This produces an environment where one can not thrive - black children do not learn the value of work nor understand how society and the rest of the world works. More of this would make it worse. Social programing is problem. Why create more of it?

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#133

Post by sequoia » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 1:19 PM UTC

cpursley wrote: post #132

hooande wrote: post #38

This seems like another argument for Basic Income. A lot of young, jobless people (males especially) isn't only a moral problem, but it's a sociological problem. The young jobless commit more crimes, are more likely to join gangs and are generally more of a drain on society. Giving them an income would remove the social pressure to constantly look for jobs that aren't actually there. People could focus on internships…

"This seems like another argument for Basic Income." I stopped reading there. The reason black youths have high unemployment rates is their (typically unwed) mothers already live off a combination of section 8 housing, food stamps, medicaid, other govt. programs and whatever they can get under the table to keep their reportable income low. This produces an environment where one can not thrive - black children do not…

> The reason black youths have high unemployment rates is their (typically unwed) mothers already live off a combination of section 8 housing, food stamps, medicaid, other govt. programs and whatever they can get under the table to keep their reportable income low.

Got a source, there, David Duke? FYI low-income/poor black youth ≠ all black youth.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#134

Post by rorrr2 » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 1:44 PM UTC

quaunaut wrote: post #77

rorrr2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had a computer, and it took you five years to find A job? I find that hard to believe.

Not all of us are born knowing people who can get us jobs. Fresno had one of the densest populations of poverty in America, and as someone with no college, finding minimum-wage work was near impossible- 4,000 people show up for jobs at grocery stores. And no, that isn't an exaggeration. Combine that with not knowing where to look or who to ask when it comes to getting remote programming work, you don't really have a…

I knew none of my employers. Try Craigslist, Monster, Dice, LinkedIn.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#135

Post by cpursley » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 2:23 PM UTC

sequoia wrote: post #133

cpursley wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This seems like another argument for Basic Income." I stopped reading there. The reason black youths have high unemployment rates is their (typically unwed) mothers already live off a combination of section 8 housing, food stamps, medicaid, other govt. programs and whatever they can get under the table to keep their reportable income low. This produces an environment where one can not thrive - black children do not…

> The reason black youths have high unemployment rates is their (typically unwed) mothers already live off a combination of section 8 housing, food stamps, medicaid, other govt. programs and whatever they can get under the table to keep their reportable income low. Got a source, there, David Duke? FYI low-income/poor black youth ≠ all black youth.

Not all, I didn't say all.

The source is my current home in Georgia and my wife's experience as a HS teacher.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#136

Post by pandaman » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 2:25 PM UTC

wildgift wrote: post #127

pandaman wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt people who rob gas stations post often on the HN. But consider this: it takes money to vandalize as the spray paint does not grow on trees and even when you stole it you are missing an opportunity to steal something you could pawn/sell (like washing detergent or booze). Yet the vandalism does not stop. People don't join gangs to pay their bills.

The graffiti culture and gang culture are mostly separate and not related.

Don't ever come to LA if you don't want your reality to be shattered.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#137

Post by specialist » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 3:22 PM UTC

quaunaut wrote: post #18

Honest question: Have we, as a society, looked into possibly supplying people with short-term loans, with a guaranteed open position for someone at a place in more rural parts of America? Originally, I was born in Fresno, CA. We didn't have the most healthy job rate when times were good, let alone once the recession hit. I spent five years looking for a job- and didn't find one until I got the help of a friend online…

Have we, as a society, looked into possibly supplying people with short-term loans...

"The reason poor people remain poor is because they don't have access to capital."

Sorry, I couldn't quickly rediscover the author / researcher who made this statement.

Everything costs more when you're poor and it's harder to get ahead when you're underwater. Having been "poor" (medical debt), I heartedly concur.

I learn all sorts of new things listening to Mind Over Matters on keep.org every weekend.

http://kexp.org/programs/MindOverMatters

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#138

Post by specialist » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 3:26 PM UTC

cpeterso wrote: post #120

saalweachter wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "a huge number"? Do you mean "a huge number" or do you mean "a huge fraction"? The difference is important for policy decisions. 25% of Americans are food insecure each year. If you gave them enough money to not be (we sort of try to do this: about 15% of the US population received food stamps at some point last year, but 15% is less than 25%, and the monetary amount is sometimes too small to prev…

I wasn't suggesting that people abusing the system would be a reason to not implement it. I was just expressing disappointment that it wouldn't be able to help them .

Disappointment. I get that.

The greatest good for the greatest number. Focus on the successes.

Not everyone can be helped. But withholding help because of some free loaders isn't moral.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#139

Post by incision » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 3:54 PM UTC

tracker1 wrote: post #130

incision wrote: post #28

As I've mentioned on HN before, I dropped out of high school and found my into a job in technology by way of a GED, public libraries and work as a landscaper, in the DC area coincidentally. Everything mentioned in this article rings to true me. The transition traditional low-end jobs to middle-aged people and closed-circle of internships and job programs in particular. That said, the first step towards mitigating thi…

It happens a lot in lower income white and hispanic communities as well... I don't think this is so much a racial issue as it is one of multi-generation poverty.

That's certainly logical, but I can't speak with as much anecdotal authority about those communities.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#140

Post by pornsrus » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 4:19 PM UTC

auctiontheory wrote: post #105

pornsrus wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work for a 600 people company. We are at least one level below Facebook/Google. I once interviewed a guy from Microsoft for a senior position. Everybody liked him. But we couldn't make him an offer because he doesn't have a degree. Blame this on the stupid US immigration policy. If we hire him, we'll have to let go all the H-1B holders, me included, on his team because the logic of US immigration service goes like…

Interesting, but did the INS really say that? Steve (Jobs') and Bill's lack of university degree never stopped Apple and Microsoft from hiring H-1B holders.

Steve and Bill are the founder of the company, aren't they? Also, for companies as big as Apple and Microsoft, they'll be able to find a position for the guy without a degree. The restriction only applies to comparable positions. Steve Jobs not having a degree has nothing to do with me being hired on H-1B as a software engineer.