Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

pbs.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 153 posts

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#71

Post by krakensden »

cpeterso wrote: post #64
hooande wrote: post #38

This seems like another argument for Basic Income. A lot of young, jobless people (males especially) isn't only a moral problem, but it's a sociological problem. The young jobless commit more crimes, are more likely to join gangs and are generally more of a drain on society. Giving them an income would remove the social pressure to constantly look for jobs that aren't actually there. People could focus on internships…

I imagine a huge number of people on Basic Income would just blow all the money on the first day of each month on drugs and frivolous consumer goods. That said, I do think society has an obligation to provide a basic guarantee of life's needs: education, food and income, and health care. There is only so much society or any individual can do for someone if they, given the tools and opportunity, choose to waste it.

That happens anyway. The addicts who are both totally lost and still functional enough to do paperwork are all on psychiatric SSI.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#72

Post by krakensden »

jlgreco wrote: post #6

So all those factors, when you combine them and take a young black high school dropout, low-income male, you're talking 5 percent employment. Paul Solman: 5 percent? Andrew Sum: Yes. Paul Solman: 95 percent unemployment rate? Andrew Sum: Jobless. Not all of them would be classified as [unemployed], but they're not working. In other words, you could just say, "I gave up looking for work," which a lot of them do, but o…

There is an oil and natural gas boom in most of those states- the jobs pay quite well and don't really require any education. So theoretically either- but I suspect he actually means 'high school age persons in the aforementioned states'.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#73

Post by codex »

hooande wrote: post #38

This seems like another argument for Basic Income. A lot of young, jobless people (males especially) isn't only a moral problem, but it's a sociological problem. The young jobless commit more crimes, are more likely to join gangs and are generally more of a drain on society. Giving them an income would remove the social pressure to constantly look for jobs that aren't actually there. People could focus on internships…

Given that human wants are infinite, why would someone with no job but a basic income not commit crimes to increase their income? They have plenty of time on their hands, and their social status would be a function of how much wealth they had beyond their basic income.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#74

Post by wisty »

1123581321 wrote: post #69
readme wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly. Lowering the minimum wage isn't going to make an unskilled and lazy teenager useful. We have programs for this: * http://www.jobcorps.gov/home.aspx -- This provides room, board, a stipend suitable for a teenager with no expenses, and vocational training for those under 25 years old (i.e, teens) * http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/ -- There's really no disputing this one. Any one of them can hoof it over to the nearest…

I directly disagree. Lowering minimum wage reduces the risk of hiring an unskilled and lazy teenager to train them in a job. When you look at one hour of one person's work, the difference between $9, $7, $5 and $3 an hour seems trivial. Surely the employer has a five dollar bill sitting around, right? But when you look at full work weeks of time, plus the costs of training the job, multiplied by all of the employees…

> But when you look at full work weeks of time, plus the costs of training the job, multiplied by all of the employees the company will hire, the difference in hourly wages emerges.

Not really. You won't train them with a $3 / hour worker. Their timesheet won't be done by a $3 / hour worker. Their workspace and equipment will cost more than $3 / hour. If they piss off a customer, or steal from the till, or break stuff, or bully other employees, or get you sued, the cost will be the same.

People in non-tech fields have to practically beg to get an internship which pays nothing. OK, internships should be about training, not work (it's the law), but we all know that's often a load of crap. That's because all staff have overhead, so even a free worker costs quite a bit.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#75

Post by columbo »

quaunaut wrote: post #18

Honest question: Have we, as a society, looked into possibly supplying people with short-term loans, with a guaranteed open position for someone at a place in more rural parts of America? Originally, I was born in Fresno, CA. We didn't have the most healthy job rate when times were good, let alone once the recession hit. I spent five years looking for a job- and didn't find one until I got the help of a friend online…

Well kind-of but not exactly... there is job corps: http://www.jobcorps.gov/home.aspx

Basic trade skills, pays you for earning a GED, most of the centres are rual so it's hard to fall into 'temptation'. Overall a great program.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#76

Post by cmsmith »

codex wrote: post #73
hooande wrote: post #38

This seems like another argument for Basic Income. A lot of young, jobless people (males especially) isn't only a moral problem, but it's a sociological problem. The young jobless commit more crimes, are more likely to join gangs and are generally more of a drain on society. Giving them an income would remove the social pressure to constantly look for jobs that aren't actually there. People could focus on internships…

Given that human wants are infinite, why would someone with no job but a basic income not commit crimes to increase their income? They have plenty of time on their hands, and their social status would be a function of how much wealth they had beyond their basic income.

The marginal value of money decreases as income goes up. So a crime that has an expected positive return when you have no money becomes less and less worth it as you become richer.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#77

Post by quaunaut »

rorrr2 wrote: post #37
quaunaut wrote: post #18

Honest question: Have we, as a society, looked into possibly supplying people with short-term loans, with a guaranteed open position for someone at a place in more rural parts of America? Originally, I was born in Fresno, CA. We didn't have the most healthy job rate when times were good, let alone once the recession hit. I spent five years looking for a job- and didn't find one until I got the help of a friend online…

You had a computer, and it took you five years to find A job? I find that hard to believe.

Not all of us are born knowing people who can get us jobs. Fresno had one of the densest populations of poverty in America, and as someone with no college, finding minimum-wage work was near impossible- 4,000 people show up for jobs at grocery stores. And no, that isn't an exaggeration.

Combine that with not knowing where to look or who to ask when it comes to getting remote programming work, you don't really have a lot in the way of recourse.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#78

Post by skylan_q »

readme wrote: post #23
bmmayer1 wrote: post #4

Minimum wage law.

Hardly. Lowering the minimum wage isn't going to make an unskilled and lazy teenager useful. We have programs for this: * http://www.jobcorps.gov/home.aspx -- This provides room, board, a stipend suitable for a teenager with no expenses, and vocational training for those under 25 years old (i.e, teens) * http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/ -- There's really no disputing this one. Any one of them can hoof it over to the nearest…

Lowering the minimum wage isn't going to make an unskilled and lazy teenager useful.

Correct. They'll just be cheaper. If value > cost, then it's worth it for a business to pursue.

If something is only slightly useful, then it's still useful and still worth having at some cost.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#79

Post by 1123581321 »

wisty wrote: post #74
1123581321 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I directly disagree. Lowering minimum wage reduces the risk of hiring an unskilled and lazy teenager to train them in a job. When you look at one hour of one person's work, the difference between $9, $7, $5 and $3 an hour seems trivial. Surely the employer has a five dollar bill sitting around, right? But when you look at full work weeks of time, plus the costs of training the job, multiplied by all of the employees…

> But when you look at full work weeks of time, plus the costs of training the job, multiplied by all of the employees the company will hire, the difference in hourly wages emerges. Not really. You won't train them with a $3 / hour worker. Their timesheet won't be done by a $3 / hour worker. Their workspace and equipment will cost more than $3 / hour. If they piss off a customer, or steal from the till, or break stuf…

I was hoping that was all understood in my post since it's all obvious to anyone who has been in business. If a business cannot tolerate unskilled workers or has limited hiring spots due to a limited number of machines, etc., then they need to hire skilled workers immediately and so are not part of what we are considering.

As someone who has managed a variety of budgets, I assure you that the wage portion of an employee's total cost is still meaningful.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#80

Post by deadairspace »

sjtgraham wrote: post #45
rorrr2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had a computer, and it took you five years to find A job? I find that hard to believe.

Shit Hacker News says

Sadly they stopped tweeting in April. https://twitter.com/shit_hn_says
Post reply on HN