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The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

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Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#101

Post by pliny »

hkmurakami wrote: post #39
jlgreco wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds almost like a modern homesteading act. Interesting idea.

I wonder what fraction of the (let's call it) hopelessly unemployed would take up such an option if it's offered to everyone who wants it. As a whole our society has become much more entitled than back in those days, and the way in which we've been brought up, I wonder if some would see it as patronizing and reject the offer, even if it really would have meant a better future for them. Then again I have been incredib…

>As a whole our society has become much more entitled than back in those days

You should recall that less than a century ago people felt they were entitled to own other people, perhaps you mean that as a whole our society has grown averse to letting people starve in ghettos.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#102

Post by prostoalex »

readme wrote: post #88
jlgreco wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that there is value in dropping the minimum wage for teenagers dramatically, regardless of these issues. Giving teenagers another place to get yelled at for not working hard enough (besides just school and home) is clearly beneficial (as you note about the military) but the options that you list are not sufficient. They require too much of a lifestyle change which makes those programs seem inaccessible. Letti…

>dropping the minimum wage for teenagers I can agree to this, except, lets do it this way: lets leave the minimum wage where it is for teens, and raise it for everyone else. That'd also solve the problem of adults working jobs that are meant for teens.

Wouldn't you have two problems then?

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#103

Post by rickhanlonii »

saalweachter wrote: post #84
cpeterso wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine a huge number of people on Basic Income would just blow all the money on the first day of each month on drugs and frivolous consumer goods. That said, I do think society has an obligation to provide a basic guarantee of life's needs: education, food and income, and health care. There is only so much society or any individual can do for someone if they, given the tools and opportunity, choose to waste it.

What do you mean by "a huge number"? Do you mean "a huge number" or do you mean "a huge fraction"? The difference is important for policy decisions. 25% of Americans are food insecure each year. If you gave them enough money to not be (we sort of try to do this: about 15% of the US population received food stamps at some point last year, but 15% is less than 25%, and the monetary amount is sometimes too small to prev…

"Personally, I'm OK with the idea of hundreds of thousands of people abusing the public trust if it means that tens of millions are bootstrapped out of poverty."

Hear, hear! We have to stop governing our society by what a small percentage may do. We need to start using some business logic and leverage the best ideas for the most people. Is spending food stamps on heroine an abuse of the system? Yes.

But so was selling loans to people they knew couldn't afford it, and then taking out an insurance policy on them defaulting.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#104

Post by hayksaakian »

pornsrus wrote: post #46
icelancer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or shouldn't it be used to promote alternative methods of education that are accepted by many employers? STEM fields by and large are the most friendly towards alternative (or complete lack of) education. A well-manicured GitHub, a decent resume, and not looking like an idiot in an interview trumps most college degrees for mid-level developer jobs that aren't Facebook/Google/etc.

I work for a 600 people company. We are at least one level below Facebook/Google. I once interviewed a guy from Microsoft for a senior position. Everybody liked him. But we couldn't make him an offer because he doesn't have a degree. Blame this on the stupid US immigration policy. If we hire him, we'll have to let go all the H-1B holders, me included, on his team because the logic of US immigration service goes like…

Thanks for the pointer, I'll keep this in mind if I consider applying for companies that prioritize hiring H1Bs.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#105

Post by auctiontheory »

pornsrus wrote: post #46
icelancer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or shouldn't it be used to promote alternative methods of education that are accepted by many employers? STEM fields by and large are the most friendly towards alternative (or complete lack of) education. A well-manicured GitHub, a decent resume, and not looking like an idiot in an interview trumps most college degrees for mid-level developer jobs that aren't Facebook/Google/etc.

I work for a 600 people company. We are at least one level below Facebook/Google. I once interviewed a guy from Microsoft for a senior position. Everybody liked him. But we couldn't make him an offer because he doesn't have a degree. Blame this on the stupid US immigration policy. If we hire him, we'll have to let go all the H-1B holders, me included, on his team because the logic of US immigration service goes like…

Interesting, but did the INS really say that? Steve (Jobs') and Bill's lack of university degree never stopped Apple and Microsoft from hiring H-1B holders.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#106

Post by MartinCron »

dllthomas wrote: post #100
Jayschwa wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This seems like another argument for Basic Income. Or another argument against minimum wage. Minimum wage gets increased as cost-of-living goes up (albeit with a large lag). That's good if you're the household bread-winner trying to live off a minimum wage job. It's bad if you're a kid looking for some spending money. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

> > This seems like another argument for Basic Income. > Or another argument against minimum wage. How about both?

Absolutely, BI would make minimum wage obsolete, allowing for a much more flexible labor market without people on the edge of starvation.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#107

Post by newnewnew »

readme wrote: post #88
jlgreco wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that there is value in dropping the minimum wage for teenagers dramatically, regardless of these issues. Giving teenagers another place to get yelled at for not working hard enough (besides just school and home) is clearly beneficial (as you note about the military) but the options that you list are not sufficient. They require too much of a lifestyle change which makes those programs seem inaccessible. Letti…

>dropping the minimum wage for teenagers I can agree to this, except, lets do it this way: lets leave the minimum wage where it is for teens, and raise it for everyone else. That'd also solve the problem of adults working jobs that are meant for teens.

Who's in charge of deciding which jobs are "meant" for teens?

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#108

Post by MartinCron »

w1ntermute wrote: post #93
bluedino wrote: post #65

Where are the young black kids in tech? Blacks of any age are sorely under-represented in tech. So are Latinos, although not quite as bad. It's a very white (and Asian/Indian) world we live in. I'm so glad to see things like Black Girls Code. These kids need mentors that aren't sports stars, or music stars. Oddly enough, music is one industry I always remember running into a lot of black people in - Macs and ProTools…

> Oddly enough, music is one industry I always remember running into a lot of black people in - Macs and ProTools used in music production. That's not odd at all. Blacks are hugely overrepresented in the music industry (as well as the pro sports industry). You gotta love how American society is always collectively wringing its hands about how there aren't enough black people in STEM, but nobody mentions how underrepr…

The entertainment and pro sports industries are so small that they hardly matter in terms of actual employment.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#109

Post by bilbo0s »

incision wrote: post #28

As I've mentioned on HN before, I dropped out of high school and found my into a job in technology by way of a GED, public libraries and work as a landscaper, in the DC area coincidentally. Everything mentioned in this article rings to true me. The transition traditional low-end jobs to middle-aged people and closed-circle of internships and job programs in particular. That said, the first step towards mitigating thi…

Well...

We shouldn't engage in wishful thinking either. Even if they graduate high school, the unemployment rate that awaits them is still pretty dismal. I believe the employment/population ratio for young black males "increased" to 33% for high school graduates...

Only the Bureau of Labor Statistics doesn't count incarcerated people in that ratio. So if you throw in that 1 in 9 young black males who are incarcerated, (I know it's higher, but 1 in 9 is the rate for high school graduates), you can see pretty clearly that even with a high school diploma they barely crack a 20% employment/population ratio. And that's actually being pretty generous with the numbers.

Of course, 20% - 25% is a better chance than 5%, so it's TECHNICALLY better to have a high school diploma...

But since the unemployment rate for whites with no high school diploma hoovers around 12%... it's actually MUCH better just to be white, than it is to graduate high school.

For blacks, especially males, I think the only way education really helps them in a material fashion, is if they can manage to graduate college.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#110

Post by readme »

newnewnew wrote: post #107
readme wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>dropping the minimum wage for teenagers I can agree to this, except, lets do it this way: lets leave the minimum wage where it is for teens, and raise it for everyone else. That'd also solve the problem of adults working jobs that are meant for teens.

Who's in charge of deciding which jobs are "meant" for teens?

It wouldn't be such a big deal to prevent adults from taking these jobs, it just needs to be more attractive for companies to give them to students. So, the lower wage alone would be a good enough incentive for them.

Once the minimum wage was lower for "school jobs" the market would efficiently define which jobs can be given to school kids and which can't.

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