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Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

guardian.co.uk

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Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#81

Post by tptacek »

madaxe wrote: post #79
tptacek wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This glib sentiment ignores the reality that there are in fact thousands of armed militants in Afghanistan who will happily kill tens of innocent Afghanis on spec just for the prospect of killing a single NATO soldier, and that the vast majority of those militants have not been captured. One needn't support GTMO, or even tolerate it, to acknowledge the fact that our adversaries in this conflict are both real and desp…

They're not despicable. Just piteous, and angry, and at the guys who really screwed shit up for them - that's the US right now - used to be the USSR. The militants were borne out of these historic conflicts, and were largely armed by such. They will not go away through force. They cannot. It is ridiculous to think that one can resolve something through yet more of the very thing which instigated it. They can and will…

Neither Russia nor the US forced militants to establish a despotic theocracy in Afghanistan dedicated to the facially ridiculous prospect of establishing an Islamic Caliphate that would run the middle east under medieval religious law, or to host a transnational irregular armed force dedicated to the delusional prospect of hastening that lost cause by targeting and murdering civilians abroad.

If you want to pursue a line of argument that leaves you sticking up for the Taliban, that's your prerogative, but I don't think doing so will strengthen any case you have to make about the US.

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#82

Post by elleferrer »

madaxe wrote: post #42
elleferrer wrote: post #39

So...I kind of don't feel bad about this ever since those allegations of domestic violence surfaced.

So, torture in Guantanamo is OK?

No, torture in Guantanamo is not OK.

As for Mos Def the artist, awesome. As Mos Def the person, meh.

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#83

Post by herge »

simonsarris wrote: post #7
herge wrote: post #2

Recently read a headline I could not believe was not from The Onion: "Guantanamo Bay Prisoners force fed at night during Ramadan"

Isn't that consistent with normal force-feeding, except its properly respecting Ramadan? The fast of Ramadan begins at sunrise and ends at sunset. So force-feeding them at night is the religiously observant thing to do. (To say nothing about force-feeding in general)

So we (if only we could just blame the Americans, but we are all responsible, unfortunately) respect their religious rights but completely ignore their rights to liberty or even a fair trail.

You have to admit, it's hilarious. Even the Soviets could not have made up this stuff.

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#84

Post by Buzaga »

Buzaga wrote: post #75
charlieflowers wrote: post #72

Surely everyone watching this had their bullshit detectors go off??? Regardless of how you feel about Guantanamo Bay, there is clearly some acting -- some "dramatic exaggeration" -- going on in this video. Bey volunteered to undergo the procedure. So he knew they would stop at any point if he asked them to. There was no need, therefore, for all the screaming of "no" and "please don't." For Bey, this procedure was aki…

that's a very normal reaction, lookup any 'funny' video of people not being able to hold the pain of getting tattooed... they wanted it done, they paid, they try to sustain what they're going through since they accepted it in the first place(which is not the case of your criminal country abductees) and then it explodes in a violent reaction when they figure out "I really can't take it", go, look it up.

* criminal government would be the right term of course as this is not exactly done in light of it's people scrutinity.

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#85

Post by gnosis »

tptacek wrote: post #61
madaxe wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please. 1) Many (most) weren't "caught" doing anything, other than going about their business. The majority were kidnapped from airports. 2) "Allied forces"? We white. Them black. Therefore them bad. Try to see the world from a perspective other than your own. 3) "War zone" - no it wasn't. It became a warzone after most of those in Gitmo were disappeared. That's like saying that what happened to jewish people befo…

1. Many of them were in fact armed combatants. A significant problem in securing the release of GTMO detainees is that they were handled so clumsily that it was difficult to sort out which detainees were victims of circumstance and which were violent. Several people released from GTMO have later been killed or captured in armed conflict with NATO forces. 2. By "allied" he meant "NATO". There are plenty of "black" peo…

"Many of them were in fact armed combatants"

The US government has a tremendous credibility problem.

Its representatives make many claims, trying to spin the narrative in their favor. Some people seem to buy much of this narrative. They apparently believe the stories that governments, spy agencies, police, torturers, and PR hacks spin.

It is impossible to know whether such a position of credulity is genuine or merely apologetic. But it should be noted that many others in the world don't believe the spin. They've witnessed the government, spy agencies, police, torturers, and PR hacks caught in too many self-serving lies.

Some people apparently choose to believe alleged testimony given by helpless people who've been tortured in a prison they may never leave, or testimony given by secret sources before a kangaroo court, or the testimony of spies who are essentially professional liars. These people have zero credibility for the rest of us. Yet their narrative is swallowed by others and then presented as uncontrovertable fact: "Many of them were in fact armed combatants" Oh yeah? Says who? Says who who has a shred of credibilty? Prove it. Prove it without resorting to a witch trial before a rubber-stamping kangaroo court that brings shame to the United States and the world.

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#86

Post by dreamfactory »

tptacek wrote: post #81
madaxe wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not despicable. Just piteous, and angry, and at the guys who really screwed shit up for them - that's the US right now - used to be the USSR. The militants were borne out of these historic conflicts, and were largely armed by such. They will not go away through force. They cannot. It is ridiculous to think that one can resolve something through yet more of the very thing which instigated it. They can and will…

Neither Russia nor the US forced militants to establish a despotic theocracy in Afghanistan dedicated to the facially ridiculous prospect of establishing an Islamic Caliphate that would run the middle east under medieval religious law, or to host a transnational irregular armed force dedicated to the delusional prospect of hastening that lost cause by targeting and murdering civilians abroad. If you want to pursue a…

If you haven't seen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares, it's well worth a view.

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#87

Post by tptacek »

dreamfactory wrote: post #86
tptacek wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither Russia nor the US forced militants to establish a despotic theocracy in Afghanistan dedicated to the facially ridiculous prospect of establishing an Islamic Caliphate that would run the middle east under medieval religious law, or to host a transnational irregular armed force dedicated to the delusional prospect of hastening that lost cause by targeting and murdering civilians abroad. If you want to pursue a…

If you haven't seen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares , it's well worth a view.

The fact that the Taliban was a despicable force for evil doesn't moot the idea that politicians and demagogues in the US and Europe have exploited Islamaphobia, nor does it imply that the Taliban or Al Qaeda is a threat worthy of the degree of state machinery we've allocated to it.

None of these things are black and white.

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#89

Post by dreamfactory »

tptacek wrote: post #87
dreamfactory wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you haven't seen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares , it's well worth a view.

The fact that the Taliban was a despicable force for evil doesn't moot the idea that politicians and demagogues in the US and Europe have exploited Islamaphobia, nor does it imply that the Taliban or Al Qaeda is a threat worthy of the degree of state machinery we've allocated to it. None of these things are black and white.

Of course. One of the interesting aspects was the extent to which the west instigated and funded these organizations almost from inception.

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#90

Post by [deleted] »

tptacek wrote: post #87
dreamfactory wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you haven't seen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares , it's well worth a view.

The fact that the Taliban was a despicable force for evil doesn't moot the idea that politicians and demagogues in the US and Europe have exploited Islamaphobia, nor does it imply that the Taliban or Al Qaeda is a threat worthy of the degree of state machinery we've allocated to it. None of these things are black and white.

[deleted]
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