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Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

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Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#191

Post by ericcumbee »

bsg75 wrote: post #71
_wp3r wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KTVU is providing amazingly sensationalist coverage. I guess I do not watch enough video news to be use to seeing it. Just wild assumptions and implied details.

Apparently the belief is if they don't talk constantly, the reality TV demographic (those influenced by commercials) won't watch. Actual information is not important, just dramatic syllables. Amazingly, Fox News is broadcasting a live feed of the scene, with no more audio than the helicopter itself: http://video.foxnews.com/v/1155606219001/

Check the lower third on CNN "Fire Chief: Fire Fighters went to work right away" I mean really? they did not stop for some in and out on the way to the scene?

Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#192

Post by ddunkin »

Someone wrote: post #124
Osmium wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine the confusion that must have gone on when that happened, maybe it's shock or maybe people just underestimate the severity of their situation but correct me if I'm wrong... are there people in that photo actually carrying their bags off the plane? I can't quite comprehend that.

Apparently, it is fairly normal behavior; people activate a "leave plane" program. Having only one, they pick the one involving grabbing one's luggage before getting out of the plane. (Sorry, can't find a reference. Most hits I get are either on emergency reaction/response by outside teams or on long-term emergency responses such as PTSD, community reactions, etc)

What they need is a giant sliding bar (like in old jail cells) that locks the overhead doors shut on takeoff, and won't get released until at the gate. Last time I flew on a commercial flight, I got clocked in the head by some jerk who couldn't think ahead and put 'something important' in the overhead.

I think it would be fair to carry the small package under my seat (my laptop), but reaching for overhead is a joke.

Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#193

Post by richtr »

markdown wrote: post #172
richtr wrote: post #156

While we are looking at reasons why this crash happened it may be worthwhile to consider Malcolm Gladwell's suggestion in his book 'Outliers' that Korean cultural legacy, where the High Power Distance ratio between bosses (the pilot) and their underlings (such as the co-pilot) were responsible for a series of Korean Air crashes in the 1990s. "In addition to weather and pilot fatigue, he blames those crashes on crew m…

Asian and Middle-eastern airlines have a huge number of expat pilots. Let's please let race and culture be speculations of last resort.

Absolutely right. I was bringing to the attention of the HN community a series of Korean airline crashes that occurred in the 1990s that can be directly attributed to this factor [1].

For the record, there are a number of countries worldwide that exhibit the same restricted cultural legacy. For example, there is also a High Power Distance ratio in a number Latin American and African countries [2]. See, for example, details of the crash of Colombian Avianca Flight 52 [3].

Whether this is a factor _in this particular incident_ is of course for the authorities to decide. Considering the provenance of this airline as being from a high power distance ratio country I felt this information might be relevant or at least of interest to others.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_incidents_and_accid...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstede's_cultural_dimensions...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avianca_Flight_52#Cause_and_in...

Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#194

Post by marvin »

starpilot wrote: post #97
justin66 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a pilot error that can account for the tail ripping off that plane?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailstrike Eyewitness, standard caveats apply: > “The tail was too low. Instead of coming in flat it was coming in at a 45-degree angle, with the tail far too low,” http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/06/19323541-boeing-7...

There is no sense in speculating about the cause until the official report is ready, though. Things that seem obvious immediately can easily turn out to be wrong. Unless we're just speculating for fun.

Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#196

Post by Stratoscope »

rapsourly wrote: post #114
jcdavis wrote: post #55

ATC audio from the crash http://wandr.me/Audio/AAR214-KSFO-Crash.mp3

Is there a transcript available?

I transcribed part of it:

0:00-0:02 - Tower: "Asiana 214, San Francisco Tower, runway 28 left, cleared to land"

0:02-0:04 - Asiana 214 pilot: "Cleared to land left, Asiana 214"

0:05-0:08 - Tower: "Skywest 5427, fly runway heading and contact (north cal?) departure" (plane took off and is making a straight-out departure, and now will contact departure control)

0:09-0:12 - Skywest 5427 pilot: "OK, going to departure, Skywest 5427 (free?)"

0:12-0:14 United 885 pilot: "United 885" (pilot makes a quick break call to tower before making a longer request)

0:14-0:16 Tower: "United, uh, 85, OK?" (tells pilot to go ahead)

0:17-0:21 United 885 pilot: "Yes, United 885 at the end, we might need a few more minutes, just a heads-up" (It sounds like 885 is next for takeoff and has taxied into position next to the runway)

0:21-0:25 Tower: "United 885, roger, hold short of runway 28 left, let me know when you're ready"

0:25-0:27 United 885 pilot: "Hold at 28 left, United 885"

0:27-0:32 Skywest 5452 pilot: "San Francisco Tower, Skywest 5452, (quite ?), 28 right"

0:32-0:36 Tower: "Skywest 5452, San Francisco Tower, runway 28 right, cleared to land"

0:36-0:38 Skywest 5452 pilot: "Clear to land, 28 right, Skywest 5452"

0:38-0:41 Tower: "Three Sierra Fox... (garbled)"

0:39-0:41 Voice in background (in tower?) "What? Hell? What happened?"

0:43-0:50 Skyhawk 737ZD pilot: "San Francisco Tower, Skyhawk seven three seven zulu delta (garbled, another transmission saying 'GO AROUND') (something) plus 500 feet please, over San Carlos" (A four seat Cessna is over the San Carlos airport just southeast of SFO and wants to cross the SFO airspace. 737ZD [if I have it right] is the aircraft's tail number, no connection to the Boeing 737.)

0:50-0:52 Tower: "Skyhawk 6389, maintain 3000 [feet altitude]" (It sounds like 6389 is on approach to land and tower is telling him to go around? Not sure)

0:53-0:54 Skyhawk 6389 pilot: "(something) 3000, yes, 389" (speaking quickly to keep the channel clear)

0:55-0:57 Asiana 214 pilot (!!): "Tower, Asiana 214!"

0:57-1:00 Tower: "Asiana 214 heavy, emergency vehicles are responding" ("heavy" refers to any large aircraft)

1:00-1:01 Asiana 214 pilot: "214" (acknowledging)

1:02-1:03 Tower? "Emergency veh(something)"

1:03-1:09 Asiana 214 pilot: "OK, now, uh, uh, and ten or twelve (?) (unintelligible)"

1:10-1:16 Tower: "Cessna 737 Zulu Delta, San Francisco Tower, remain clear of the San Francisco (Fox Bravo?) airspace, contact San Carlos Tower"

1:17-1:21 Skyhawk 737ZD pilot: "Seven Zulu Delta, contacting San Carlos Tower, and remaining clear"

There's another minute or so on the recording, but my nerves are shot after doing that much. If anyone would like to pick it up from there, correct it, etc., please do.

Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#197

Post by adrinavarro »

bfung wrote: post #134

I know this is exciting news and all, but: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Hacker News Guidelines What to Submit On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity. Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're…

I believe it is interesting, because accidents such as this one imply a thorough investigation. That is: figure out what went wrong, why and how, and how it can be avoided in the future (and, unlike some people believe, it's never about blaming or suing anyone).

That sounds quite hacker-ish to me. It's all about learning to understand facts, understand information and events; and then obtain conclusions and analyze them (when they are released).

Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#198

Post by david_shaw »

jasonmccay wrote: post #96
_wp3r wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KTVU is providing amazingly sensationalist coverage. I guess I do not watch enough video news to be use to seeing it. Just wild assumptions and implied details.

KTVU is borderline comical ... they were making wild assumptions that, even using basic logic and common sense, could be dismissed. I was really surprised how unknowledgeable they seemed. Much better to just report what you know and not try to make up information (even just claiming it as conjecture). Online sources were far more valuable.

> they were making wild assumptions that, even using basic logic and common sense

Agreed. I changed the channel (well, found a new live stream) when they said "it's likely that all or most of the passengers died" immediately after showing the photograph from the scene, showing many passengers leaving.

The caption to the photo was "I'm fine, and everyone else seems fine."

Really, KTVU?

Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#199

Post by seanmcdirmid »

markdown wrote: post #172
richtr wrote: post #156

While we are looking at reasons why this crash happened it may be worthwhile to consider Malcolm Gladwell's suggestion in his book 'Outliers' that Korean cultural legacy, where the High Power Distance ratio between bosses (the pilot) and their underlings (such as the co-pilot) were responsible for a series of Korean Air crashes in the 1990s. "In addition to weather and pilot fatigue, he blames those crashes on crew m…

Asian and Middle-eastern airlines have a huge number of expat pilots. Let's please let race and culture be speculations of last resort.

Korea exports pilots to countries like China (where I live), they don't import them so much anymore.

Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#200

Post by anigbrowl »

austenallred wrote: post #167
anigbrowl wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we have basically outsourced the job of drawing conclusions from opinionated people to reporters Yes, and this is economically efficient. Of course they get all sorts of things wrong at the outset - the fact that this is annoying is a reflection of how much we rely on them. But the fact is that in most cases we don't especially need to know these things immediately; I'm curious about this crash, of course, but it doe…

What I'm saying is that if you could use the aggregate cognitive surplus of the people trying to follow the event as it breaks, you could use that to create something cohesive and reliable. Then if you're not a news junkie and don't have any interest in following a story until it has settled down, you're welcome to do so. [edit] In response to the question above: So is your question why would somebody follow somethin…

It's not so much why do we follow something as it breaks - that's normal human curiosity/pattern hunger. But my question is how many people will do it consistently enough to be neutral, rather than because they're selectively interested in (but not necessarily informed about) a small set of stories. As I understand it this has been the problem for Wikinews - it can't function as well as Wikipedia because the number of people is below a critical threshold, so it lags breaking news by up to several days.
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