Live data from Hacker News

A few words on Doug Engelbart

worrydream.com

21–30 of 59 posts

Re: A few words on Doug Engelbart

#21
post #15

Anyone knows who was Doug Engelbart's PhD advisor at Berkeley? We have his profile at phdtree: http://phdtree.org/scholar/engelbart-douglas-carl/ but there is no where to find out info about his PhD advisor.

John Woodyard http://www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/hasrg/histsci/ssvoral/enge... More: http://www.ee.washington.edu/people/alumni/profiles/woodyard... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Robert_Woodyard Its also listed on his wiki page directly.

Thanks a lot, updated!

Another question: I figured out John_Robert_Woodyard's PhD advisor at Stanford was William Webster Hansen, http://phdtree.org/scholar/woodyard-john-robert/

but then I couldn't find out info about William W Hansen's PhD advisor, any help?

Re: A few words on Doug Engelbart

#22
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is amazing. I feel like there is a similar mismatch and almost backwards progress when you look at the concepts and tools behind smalltalk and the concepts most working programmers today reason with and are familiar with.

I think the huge focus on web development set CS back at least two decades in certain areas. The industry has been so intent on reinventing applications through the browser, it's lost ground in what can happen in areas like Engelbert's or Smalltalk or real hypertext.

I love Smalltalk, but it has some problems with it that are solved by the web browser.

Firstly, Smalltalk is a computing environment built around the concept of Personal Computing. You can open up and redefine the functionality of anything running on the system. This obviously makes it very prone to abuse. It was a system that was not built on the principles of running any random source code coming from a foreign party. The focus of the system was to elevate the concept of computing for the individual.

The web browser, on the other hand, has been built from the ground up on the principle that it would be running foreign and inherently untrustworthy code.

The web browser is approaching what Smalltalk was aiming for, however, with a focus on running code in a secure, sand-boxed environment. I don't feel like this is an inherently conscious trajectory but the fact that JavaScript has significant influences from Smalltalk-80 has probably helped to guide this path.

The advancements in networking and multimedia present in HTML5 are allowing for this sandboxed and restricted environment to more fully express it's influences from the Smalltalk systems.

Secondly, the open nature of the web browser and it's standards have encouraged adoption whereas the closed and proprietary nature of Smalltalk systems played a large role in it's "failure".

Designing by committee and standardization has it's pros and cons, but ultimately it promotes adoption and helps a system to survive in the overall ecosystem of computing systems.

I don't blame the web for the death of such amazing computing platforms as Smalltalk and Lisp machines, I blame market mechanics.

Microsoft succeeded with it's approach to Personal Computing because it focused on what the customers demanded for their short-term business goals, rather than some enlightened ethos of enabling humanity through better tooling. These corporate customers actually benefited from the opposite. Lack of control over a computing environment was seen as beneficial to the overall goals of the organization and is the antithesis of the goals of Smalltalk.

Re: A few words on Doug Engelbart

#24
post #11
post #2

> Engelbart hated our present-day systems. I'm not trying to say "[citation needed]" here, but I would be interested in seeing a source for this. Does anyone know of one?

The citation, in this case, is Doug Engelbart. Bret Victor is reporting what Doug Engelbart told him about present day systems.

[citation needed]

Re: A few words on Doug Engelbart

#27

Just curious if anyone else here has tried Screenhero? I've found it to be quite excellent in a handful of situations where I needed to use it. It's screen sharing where each person has their own cursor. Works surprisingly well for a small company product.

No 2 text cursors? Meh. j/k :)

Re: A few words on Doug Engelbart

#29
"'Douglas C. Engelbart, Inventor of the Computer Mouse, Dies at 88' This is as if you found the person who invented writing, and credited them for inventing the pencil."

That's what obituary headlines do: connect the dead person's achievements in a concrete way to readers' lives.

Post reply on HN