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U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#141

Post by discardorama »

chime wrote: post #40

About seven years ago, I was at a sushi bar and struck up a conversation with an older gentleman sitting next to me. He told me he was a developer and created systems for USPS. I am always fascinated by the technology used in large scale systems so I picked his brain for a good hour. From what I recall, he said at the key distribution centers, USPS scans every single mail (in standard envelop sizes) and in under a se…

(Using a throwaway account)

I worked on the OCR systems. Fun fact: at one time, the USPS was the world's biggest user of Linux in a production setting. Their OCR boxes ran on Linux (until they were replace with SGI O2 boxes at a massive cost... but I digress).

Here's the path the mail takes: it is picked up by carriers from the mail boxes. Then dump trucks bring it to the P&DCs (Processing and Distribution Centers). There are about a 1000 PDCs in the country, I think. There, mail is dumped into a massive conveyor belt, where the first machine (AFCS, or Automated Facer Canceller System) makes sure that the mail is facing the right way, and is upright. Various heuristics are used for this. Here the mail is stacked nicely into flat boxes, vertically.

Postal workers then feed these boxes to the MLOCR (Multi-Line OCR) machines. These machines scan pieces at the rate of 13/second. After being scanned, the letter goes on a long loop before coming back to the beginning: this loop, about 3 seconds (not sure about this) is the latency: the reading machine has this much time to decode the address. Also at this time: a fluorescent barcode is sprayed at the back of the piece, giving it a unique ID. If the OCR machine can read the address, it is sent to a bin indexed by the first 2 digits (or so) of the ZIP code (assuming it's not local).

If the OCR can't read the mail, it is sent to a separate pile. Then a program called RCR (Remote Computer Reader) kicks in: a person sitting in some remote area gets the image, enters enough information to decode the address, and the results are collected (tagged by the ID of the fluorescent barcode). After a few hours, this separate pile is run through the sorting machine again: this time, the fluorescent barcode ID is used to match the results from the human, and a real barcode is sprayed on the front and the piece is sorted as before.

Now, there are variations in the above, but this is the gist of it.

Fun facts: the USPS aims to handle a piece at most 7 times. And when a piece gets jammed in the machine and is torn, it gets put in a "body bag" with an apologetic note.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#142

Post by ipsin »

bentcorner wrote: post #94
javajosh wrote: post #5

Goddamnit this is NOT OK. This is the dark side of the technological improvements to "productivity": we have enabled a level of productivity that allows the few to track the many. It's time we technologists all sat down and though about ways to turn the tide - they are using technology to track us, how can we use technology to thwart them? My best answer is: data flak. We should all start building system that include…

A mail proxy is what is needed (I have no idea if these exist today). Put your letter inside an envelope to a mailing proxy. Mailing proxy opens your letter, and sends your recipient a letter from them. There are more opportunities for misdirection - the mailing proxy service can internally shuffle letters around and add mailing delays to discourage external analysis. Although, even with all that, I'm unsure of the e…

Interestingly, postmasters can act as mail proxies.

A stamp collector who wants a particular cancellation stamp can send a letter to the postmaster containing a letter and a note: "Please postmark and deliver".

I have used this in the past to play small tricks on friends, and to send them mail from far-away places.

Per the article, the entire course of your letter is tracked, so this should never be used when actual privacy is desired.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#143

Post by anaptdemise »

Metrop0218 wrote: post #103

Why is this news? Of course they log mail for law enforcement, that's a no brainer! This has nothing to do with the NSA fallout and the fact that it's being framed as such is just silly.

Except...

"Law enforcement officials need warrants to open the mail, although President George W. Bush asserted in a signing statement in 2007 that the federal government had the authority to open mail without warrants in emergencies or foreign intelligence cases."

The scanning of the envelope is rather benign and critical to efficient operation of the mail sorting/routing system. However, the long term storage of correspondence and association in light of recent NSA disclosures is more concerning. The possibility of abuse is enormous. All you would have to do is find someone that is being tracked and start placing letters addressed to any of your political enemies in their mailbox for pick up.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#144

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

IanDrake wrote: post #108
chime wrote: post #40

About seven years ago, I was at a sushi bar and struck up a conversation with an older gentleman sitting next to me. He told me he was a developer and created systems for USPS. I am always fascinated by the technology used in large scale systems so I picked his brain for a good hour. From what I recall, he said at the key distribution centers, USPS scans every single mail (in standard envelop sizes) and in under a se…

I'm sure with the right light frequency, x-ray or other, they can partially read mail through the envelope. Not saying they're doing it, just saying it's possible.

I know that these and similar cameras are in use at the Postal Service.

http://www.fairchildimaging.com/files/2kand4klvcameramanualr...

I know from experience that you can read at least the outside page of a tri-folded letter through most envelopes on the address side. According to one of the Fairchild applications engineers, it is a problem with mail sorting systems, because they have to reject that noise to read the address properly. The Osprey camera has excellent sensitivity in both UV and Visible wavelengths.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#145

Post by mitchty »

namlem wrote: post #100
asdf3 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion protesters used to write down the license plates... just some publicly available meta-data, right?

Should they not be allowed to collect that information?

I'm curious as well, additionally how would this be enforced. In addition the collection isn't the issue, its what you do with that information after the fact that tends to be the issue at hand.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#146

Post by mpyne »

oinksoft wrote: post #99
rayiner wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at it from a purely numerical standpoint. How much is lost when a teenager buys a $100 pair of Ralph Lauren jeans when a pair that is identical in all but brand-name could be produced for $20 or so? That is the opportunity cost of that money to that kid? Military technology kills a few people (large harms to a few people), but advertising diverts vast amounts of money towards industries where it is easy to take…

Using war or the threat of war to apprehend peace is antithetical to pacifism. I'm not sure what the American populace's purported will has to do with my view that war and its antecedents are revolting. Certainly you aren't suggesting that building these things is patriotic duty for a US citizen?

> Using war or the threat of war to apprehend peace is antithetical to pacifism.

I agree, but keep in mind the person-to-person analog: "Using force or the threat of force to apprehend personal safety is antithetical to pacifism." I.e. there is a convincing philosophical argument that once you agree that people have the right to use force in self-defense, that there is a collective right to use military force for collective self-defense.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#147

Post by mpyne »

trotsky wrote: post #30
coldcode wrote: post #3

I also assume that Fedex and UPS et all are required to record your data as well?

I have no idea if they are required to do so, but it's worth noting that while the government requires a warrant to open US mail and inspect the contents, your agreement with UPS/FedEx allows them to open anything they see fit to.

To be clear, it allows UPS/FedEx to open it, not the government. Although UPS/FedEx can then voluntarily give it to the government should they open it...

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#148

Post by mpyne »

charonn0 wrote: post #70

I can think of no legal or Constitutional arguments against this program. Yet, I am still deeply troubled by its existence. I call it unconstitutional by reason of scale.

> I call it unconstitutional by reason of scale.

Which is actually the kind of argument which justices on the Supreme Court might be comfortable with. "Yes, this program somehow squeezes into the letter of the law, but not anywhere close to the intent of the law or the Constitution".

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#149

Post by jlgaddis »

mpyne wrote: post #134
IanDrake wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure with the right light frequency, x-ray or other, they can partially read mail through the envelope. Not saying they're doing it, just saying it's possible.

Well there's ways to pull the paper out without disturbing the envelope if they really wanted to go that far. As it stands what you're suggesting is at least already illegal, FWIW.

> As it stands what you're suggesting is at least already illegal, FWIW.

Unless a secret presidential order established a secret law (declared legal by a secret court) that made it legal (but illegal to disclose to the public), that is.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#150

Post by betterunix »

elmuchoprez wrote: post #93
asdf3 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion protesters used to write down the license plates... just some publicly available meta-data, right?

Even if someone thought such actions were unreasonable, I have no idea how you'd use the law to prevent it.

In this century, we certainly can: do not have license plates at all, use radio beacons instead, which send encrypted copies of the plate. The police would be allowed to request decryption from the DMV (e.g., "running the plates"), and a few other authorized people, but the general public could not. The secret keys would be the weak point, and would have to be held only in a limited number of DMV data centers (which would help in establishing an audit trail when plates are accessed).

I'm not saying it is necessarily something that should be done, but it certainly can be done.

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