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U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#101

Post by GigabyteCoin »

rayiner wrote: post #4

Couldn't they pick a more sympathetic guy to talk about: "Mr. Pickering said that although he was arrested two dozen times for acts of civil disobedience and convicted of a handful of misdemeanors, he was never involved in the arson attacks the Earth Liberation Front carried out." Gee, this guy was a member of a group that conducted arson attacks and the government is keeping track of the mail he gives to the governm…

I think it's more the fact that he is now considered a free man, but still being spied on, which irks us all.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#102

Post by Torgo »

ck2 wrote: post #51

And yet all the anthrax letters get through to their destination and they are clueless for weeks until someone says something. Makes you wonder what they are really doing with all this data and with the Dark Star.

It will just sit there until they have eroded our rights sufficiently that it can be used for any purpose. Storage is cheap, in particular when you print your own money.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#104

Post by finnw »

malandrew wrote: post #82
mistercow wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would also likely be taken as suspicious in its own right.

True, but given the facts of the past few weeks, it's completely reasonable to set up such a system like this now for yourself as a hedge for what the political landscape may look like in the future. I know what is illegal today, but I have no idea what may be made illegal tomorrow or 10 years from now. Implementing such a system is a hedge/insurance against dystopian futures that are becoming reality. As long as suc…

> I know what is illegal today

That is impressive, even if you are a lawyer.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#105

Post by anigbrowl »

ck2 wrote: post #54
chime wrote: post #40

About seven years ago, I was at a sushi bar and struck up a conversation with an older gentleman sitting next to me. He told me he was a developer and created systems for USPS. I am always fascinated by the technology used in large scale systems so I picked his brain for a good hour. From what I recall, he said at the key distribution centers, USPS scans every single mail (in standard envelop sizes) and in under a se…

Except I've never, ever heard of this used to solve a crime. Definitely never used in court or we'd hear about it but they probably wouldn't risk the constitutionality of that. So they are just collecting it for the sake of spying on everyone. Lovely.

Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Here's a case from 1970: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=1776184466461190...

You'll notice that early on, it mentions Ex Parte Jackson, an 1878 case which established that the contents of mail are protected by the Fourth Amendment, but that the outward form is not. Mail 'metadata' has always been fair game, just as it would be fair for a police officer to observe your comings and goings on the street without any need for a warrant.

Then there's the Postal Inspection Service, which is the law enforcement agency that specializes in mail fraud (perhaps you've heard of that?) and which predates the founding of the USA.

I don't mean to be rude, but the fact that you've 'never, ever heard of' something doesn't mean anything special. You don't strike me as terribly well-informed.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#106

Post by xyzzy123 »

nthj wrote: post #95
anigbrowl wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you going to encrypt your snail mail destination data?

Interesting. From a strictly technical perspective (this is impractical), we could set up a warehouse somewhere in the country which accepted incoming mail (tagged with an ID number), dumped the entire package into a plain manilla envelope, then sent it on to the final address. The final address would be set up via an encrypted web service, so only you and the warehouse know who sent the mail & where the final destin…

It would cost more, but what if the warehouse were outside the U.S?

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#107

Post by rayiner »

GigabyteCoin wrote: post #101
rayiner wrote: post #4

Couldn't they pick a more sympathetic guy to talk about: "Mr. Pickering said that although he was arrested two dozen times for acts of civil disobedience and convicted of a handful of misdemeanors, he was never involved in the arson attacks the Earth Liberation Front carried out." Gee, this guy was a member of a group that conducted arson attacks and the government is keeping track of the mail he gives to the governm…

I think it's more the fact that he is now considered a free man, but still being spied on, which irks us all.

Is it "spying" for the government to remember information that he voluntary told to the government?

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#108

Post by IanDrake »

chime wrote: post #40

About seven years ago, I was at a sushi bar and struck up a conversation with an older gentleman sitting next to me. He told me he was a developer and created systems for USPS. I am always fascinated by the technology used in large scale systems so I picked his brain for a good hour. From what I recall, he said at the key distribution centers, USPS scans every single mail (in standard envelop sizes) and in under a se…

I'm sure with the right light frequency, x-ray or other, they can partially read mail through the envelope.

Not saying they're doing it, just saying it's possible.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#109

Post by kirubakaran »

run4yourlives wrote: post #73
oinksoft wrote: post #8

Ah, I see I've arrived at Hacker/USA Government Abuses News. And I say that as somebody deeply interested in these stories.

Agreed, although the top comment here was actually quite interesting. HN has made an exception for all things US gov't spying related. I even lost my flagging rights for flagging all the snowden stuff (which I thought was exactly what you were supposed to do when you thought something was off topic... not my fault it was the entire front page!) It's an important topic, but like you I preferred when HN was an oasis of…

How did you find out that you lost your flagging rights? Did the 'flag' link disappear?

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#110

Post by unreal37 »

chime wrote: post #40

About seven years ago, I was at a sushi bar and struck up a conversation with an older gentleman sitting next to me. He told me he was a developer and created systems for USPS. I am always fascinated by the technology used in large scale systems so I picked his brain for a good hour. From what I recall, he said at the key distribution centers, USPS scans every single mail (in standard envelop sizes) and in under a se…

I'm not surprised, and I think this is general knowledge.

When I move, I tell the post office my new address. They are able to reroute my mail to me (while the new tenant gets their mail successfully). The post office reads the outsides of envelopes, and understands that mail to the same address can be treated differently.

So the fact that they send digital records of all mail sent to the FBI shouldn't be a surprise. But still is, somehow.

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