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U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#91

Post by thrownaway2424 »

asdf3 wrote: post #79
elmuchoprez wrote: post #34

Maybe I'm alone here, but I never had an expectation of privacy in regards to what I write on the outside of a envelope and drop into a public receptacle (mailbox). I expect the contents to be considered highly private, but not the outside. There's also this issue of willing disclosure of information to an entity. When I put a stamp on something and drop it in the mailbox, I know I'm handing that information over to…

Abortion protesters used to write down the license plates... just some publicly available meta-data, right?

Yes. What is your point? Nobody has any expectation of a right to drive anonymously.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#92

Post by DanBC »

run4yourlives wrote: post #73
oinksoft wrote: post #8

Ah, I see I've arrived at Hacker/USA Government Abuses News. And I say that as somebody deeply interested in these stories.

Agreed, although the top comment here was actually quite interesting. HN has made an exception for all things US gov't spying related. I even lost my flagging rights for flagging all the snowden stuff (which I thought was exactly what you were supposed to do when you thought something was off topic... not my fault it was the entire front page!) It's an important topic, but like you I preferred when HN was an oasis of…

I strongly agree that there is too much "shallowly interesting" stuff, rather than "deeply interesting" stuff on HN.

It's a shame that people who flag "too much" fluff lose their flagging ability. I flag 4 submissions per day; I still have my flag button. I upvote good articles on new. I've been restricting my comments on the fluff articles. I've been upvoting the comments in good submission threads.

Perhaps someone could create an "HN-Shallowly-interesting"?

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#93

Post by elmuchoprez »

asdf3 wrote: post #79
elmuchoprez wrote: post #34

Maybe I'm alone here, but I never had an expectation of privacy in regards to what I write on the outside of a envelope and drop into a public receptacle (mailbox). I expect the contents to be considered highly private, but not the outside. There's also this issue of willing disclosure of information to an entity. When I put a stamp on something and drop it in the mailbox, I know I'm handing that information over to…

Abortion protesters used to write down the license plates... just some publicly available meta-data, right?

Even if someone thought such actions were unreasonable, I have no idea how you'd use the law to prevent it.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#94

Post by bentcorner »

javajosh wrote: post #5

Goddamnit this is NOT OK. This is the dark side of the technological improvements to "productivity": we have enabled a level of productivity that allows the few to track the many. It's time we technologists all sat down and though about ways to turn the tide - they are using technology to track us, how can we use technology to thwart them? My best answer is: data flak. We should all start building system that include…

A mail proxy is what is needed (I have no idea if these exist today).

Put your letter inside an envelope to a mailing proxy. Mailing proxy opens your letter, and sends your recipient a letter from them.

There are more opportunities for misdirection - the mailing proxy service can internally shuffle letters around and add mailing delays to discourage external analysis.

Although, even with all that, I'm unsure of the effectiveness of this approach. It's usefulness also scales with the number of people willing to use such a service.

Does the gov't need a second warrant to open a letter-in-a-letter?

Alternatively, you could use a peer-to-peer mailing scheme - advertise your mailing address as a mailing "node". People who want to "use" you send you a letter, and inside that letter they write a letter to the intended recipient, with the sender addressed as you. When you receive such a letter, you merely open the one addressed to you, and drop the inner letter in the mailbox. Nest as many letters as you want and have your letter "hop" around the world.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#95

Post by nthj »

anigbrowl wrote: post #57
enraged_camel wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will simply allocate more resources to it and you as the taxpayer will end up paying for it. The only real solution is to have end-to-end encryption that is easy to understand and use.

How are you going to encrypt your snail mail destination data?

Interesting. From a strictly technical perspective (this is impractical), we could set up a warehouse somewhere in the country which accepted incoming mail (tagged with an ID number), dumped the entire package into a plain manilla envelope, then sent it on to the final address.

The final address would be set up via an encrypted web service, so only you and the warehouse know who sent the mail & where the final destination is.

Of course, then the NSA would just take the warehouse's private encryption keys, so it'd only work for about 48 hours, but yeah, you know. Technically possible.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#96

Post by bentcorner »

spullara wrote: post #28
kmfrk wrote: post #15

Guess Outbox isn't looking so bad? :P https://outboxmail.com https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5822052 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5972640

Indeed! If the post office has the ability to scan all my mail before it is delivered they could at least give me a digital feed of that mail.

Haha, why bother backing up your mail when the NSA has copies of it all?

The NSA should just go all-in and make a business of all this.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#97

Post by Torgo »

kintamanimatt wrote: post #45
btbuildem wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure, they'll just throw more resources at the problem. I think the problem is in "the few". If they snoop on us, we should be able to snoop on them -- especially since it's our tax dollars that pay their salaries and (although yes it's a joke of a broken system) we elect these officials more or less directly. Just to level the field a little bit. For example, London is full of CCTV cameras -- why is it that only…

I've known one of those people that watch those cameras and I'd struggle to call him a pervert. He's was just normal guy who paid his bills by doing an incredibly dull job. All it came down to was making sure that when petty shit happens in the street (drunken fights, etc), the police and so on are called to the scene. I'm usually someone that's very fond of privacy, but I'm not entirely sure I have any qualms with C…

I had a friend who worked as a security guard at a factory. Sometimes I would come down and visit him in the guard shack. He showed me a controller he could use to point a security camera, and he excitedly showed me how it could be pointed and zoomed directly at the bedroom windows of several of the houses on the other side of the fence. And yes, we peeped. It was so easy and there was no way to be caught that it perverts your morals. You would have to be a strong person to resist the temptation. This was in the 1990s. Mass surveillance destroys the dignity of both the people spied on and those doing the spying.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#98

Post by eliasmacpherson »

bpodgursky wrote: post #83
oinksoft wrote: post #8

Ah, I see I've arrived at Hacker/USA Government Abuses News. And I say that as somebody deeply interested in these stories.

"Hacker" now optional.

Call me crazy but I can imagine seeing this type of stuff in the ole 2600, no?

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#99

Post by oinksoft »

rayiner wrote: post #90
oinksoft wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My views are painted by pacifism, so nothing is as bad to me as producing military technology, or providing talent for the military industrial complex. Your Facebook example harps on some of the evils of capitalism (manipulative advertisements and such), but given the way the world works right now, even if you live in North Korea, you are born into that (black markets, etc. which of course beat having no economic fre…

Look at it from a purely numerical standpoint. How much is lost when a teenager buys a $100 pair of Ralph Lauren jeans when a pair that is identical in all but brand-name could be produced for $20 or so? That is the opportunity cost of that money to that kid? Military technology kills a few people (large harms to a few people), but advertising diverts vast amounts of money towards industries where it is easy to take…

Using war or the threat of war to apprehend peace is antithetical to pacifism.

I'm not sure what the American populace's purported will has to do with my view that war and its antecedents are revolting. Certainly you aren't suggesting that building these things is patriotic duty for a US citizen?

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#100

Post by namlem »

asdf3 wrote: post #79
elmuchoprez wrote: post #34

Maybe I'm alone here, but I never had an expectation of privacy in regards to what I write on the outside of a envelope and drop into a public receptacle (mailbox). I expect the contents to be considered highly private, but not the outside. There's also this issue of willing disclosure of information to an entity. When I put a stamp on something and drop it in the mailbox, I know I'm handing that information over to…

Abortion protesters used to write down the license plates... just some publicly available meta-data, right?

Should they not be allowed to collect that information?
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