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Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

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Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#141

Post by electrichead »

enjo wrote: post #136
electrichead wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a way it has happened already with the XBox. After (in my opinion) winning the previous generation of console wars, they set out to ignore their main audience to appeal to the ones their marketing team has decide to target. The only thing I really liked seeing from MS recently was Sharepoint 2013, which really is very good, especially for developers.

Really? I'd actually be interested to hear more about Sharepoint. My experience with it is getting to be awhile ago, and it was VERY unpleasant. What does it do for developers now?

The single biggest thing for me was the framework for deploying "apps" through azure. You can create webparts or other bits of functionality that can be reused but hosted externally on Azure. There is a self-hosted option where the URL is a generated one but has a trust setup already; but there is also the option to use your own azure hosting but you need configure the trust yourself. One other thing I liked is that there is no more need for a SharePoint Designer - there is a new method of designing sites that is way more configurable than in the past. You can configure almost everything, but as it always is, you will find that you need to do quite a bit of research on your own to get things 100%.

All in all though, it is a very solid offering from MS that nobody really talks about. One of the main pain points from the past is that everyone thought it was a CMS when really it was a document management system. Now it actually can be both. There is a talk on YouTube from the unveiling of 2013 that is well worth a watch (although it is over an hour long)

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#142

Post by Maarten88 »

enjo wrote: post #136
electrichead wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a way it has happened already with the XBox. After (in my opinion) winning the previous generation of console wars, they set out to ignore their main audience to appeal to the ones their marketing team has decide to target. The only thing I really liked seeing from MS recently was Sharepoint 2013, which really is very good, especially for developers.

Really? I'd actually be interested to hear more about Sharepoint. My experience with it is getting to be awhile ago, and it was VERY unpleasant. What does it do for developers now?

You program "Apps" for it that work very much like Facebook Apps. It's all web standards: get an oath token with sufficient scope from the user and then use the new _api to get data in and out.

.net, Azure and javascript are supported and documented best, but you can use any language and run SharePoint apps on any platform.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#143

Post by cgore »

mtts wrote: post #70
Aardwolf wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is over 15 years ago that IE was related to Mozilla. These "lots of websites", is this about websites from 1995, or modern ones?

Modern ones. Checking for "Mozilla" is one (admittedly not very good) way to check if you're dealing with a browser or with some other kind of user agent, such as a search engine bot or something like that.

I think all the search engines do Mozilla too though. From my server logs:

cgore.com:80 218.94.63.53 - - [02/Jul/2013:16:40:57 -0500] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 3708 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; +http://www.google.com/bot.html)"

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#144

Post by MichaelGG »

bad_user wrote: post #122
MichaelGG wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take, for instance, SQL Server. It's become quite an interesting and capable platform over the last decade. It used to be that Microsoft took the stance that hardware improvements were the customer's benefit, so they'd license per socket, full stop. They used to mock Oracle with their licensing depending on what kind of CPU and how powerful it was. Latest SQL Server? Yep, you pay depending on the CPU vendor (AMD or I…

Just use something open-source - you'll get the Awesome [1] edition on any kind of chip. I never understood why some people prefer to buy licensed stuff from Oracle or Microsoft. Do you like pain? [1] http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/07/oh-you-wanted-aweso...

The only good open source SQL RDBMS I'm aware of is Postgres.

The moment Postgres has the feature range of SQL Server (SSIS, SSRS, SSAS), supports the same HA features without hassle, and is generally even half as easy to manage, I'll switch. Meanwhile, life's too short for me to want to become a "real" DBA.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#145

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

stan_rogers wrote: post #137
dualogy wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple didn't license WebKit. Apple created WebKit, by forking Konqueror's engine Of course, you're right. I was typing this faster than I was thinking.. Anyway, MS shouldn't even think of pulling something like this, on second thought---because rather than a render-engine replacement, it would end up as yet another "mode" in IE.. > Chrome doesn't update without restarting Of course the binary cannot replace itself…

Chrome will display an update arrow on the menu/address bar. If you haven't restarted in a while, it will eventually become a rather insistent red.

Wow, you mean you've had the patience and lack of ADD to wait a certain period of time without clicking the arrow? You're zen, my friend :)

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#146

Post by timthorn »

tracker1 wrote: post #53
chadzawistowski wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 8 may still be Windows, but WinRT is very much the System 9 -> OS X transition. Windows 8 supports both the old Win32 APIs and the new WinRT APIs.

That was going to be my comment as well... The WinRT kernel was started "fresh" to be mostly compatible, without the weird crufty legacy support. I think the biggest things holding back RT is that it's only on locked down ARM platforms, and low-level SDKs aren't widely available. I would speculate that RT will become the main windows kernel by Windows 10. Then again, I'm less likely to even be running Windows by then…

You might (understandably) be conflating WinRT and Windows RT. One is ARM only, the other is not.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#147

Post by aidos »

MichaelGG wrote: post #144
bad_user wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just use something open-source - you'll get the Awesome [1] edition on any kind of chip. I never understood why some people prefer to buy licensed stuff from Oracle or Microsoft. Do you like pain? [1] http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/07/oh-you-wanted-aweso...

The only good open source SQL RDBMS I'm aware of is Postgres. The moment Postgres has the feature range of SQL Server (SSIS, SSRS, SSAS), supports the same HA features without hassle, and is generally even half as easy to manage, I'll switch. Meanwhile, life's too short for me to want to become a "real" DBA.

SQL Server has some extra tools, as you've pointed out. You can probably find open source tools equally as powerful (and, by definition, more flexible) to perform those tasks. Granted, you may have to invest some time finding and learning those tools - but really, that's just life. Sometimes it's worth putting in the effort [1].

I've found that the main difference is how you work as a developer. If you're happy using a clicky interface to get your work done, more power to you. I need to be able to script everything I do, because I don't like to repeat myself. The rigmarole of restoring a db from a backup in SQL Server is just insane compared to the 4 second command I could issue at the terminal for postgres.

I know it's going to sound like a total exaggeration but I literally can't use MS products for more than a few hours at a time because of the pain I get in my arm from using the mouse. And trust me, it's not just because I don't know my way around - I spent years developing on that platform (and will never go back).

[1] http://xkcd.com/1205/

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#148

Post by de90 »

aidos wrote: post #147
MichaelGG wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only good open source SQL RDBMS I'm aware of is Postgres. The moment Postgres has the feature range of SQL Server (SSIS, SSRS, SSAS), supports the same HA features without hassle, and is generally even half as easy to manage, I'll switch. Meanwhile, life's too short for me to want to become a "real" DBA.

SQL Server has some extra tools, as you've pointed out. You can probably find open source tools equally as powerful (and, by definition, more flexible) to perform those tasks. Granted, you may have to invest some time finding and learning those tools - but really, that's just life. Sometimes it's worth putting in the effort [1]. I've found that the main difference is how you work as a developer. If you're happy using…

It feels like using the mouse is the tradeoff for using Microsoft products. I use Visual Studio and SQL Sever at work, and they are such a productivity boost, but I hate how often I have to use the mouse. The problem is many of the benefits of using their products perks would be difficult to navigate around with a keyboard.

At times it's frustrating how often you have to use the mouse, but other times it's so great compared to any alternative ways (that I know of).

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#149

Post by binarycrusader »

spamizbad wrote: post #116
zaatar wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Disclaimer: I worked on IE from 2007-2013) Yes, the current IE team is extremely strong, and has only gotten smarter & stronger during the time I worked there. There's tons of meetings I've walked out of where we made a decision to do X rather than Y because "the standard says to do X" and it was the guiding principle for decision-making.

That's really good to hear. But why was the non-standard way even an option?

Because, sometimes, standards are wrong, purposefully allow implementation-specific choices, or are helplessly vague and everyone can't agree on the interpretation.

However, the right answer is usually to exceed the requirements of the standard in way that best benefits the consumer and meets business goals.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#150

Post by MichaelGG »

aidos wrote: post #147
MichaelGG wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only good open source SQL RDBMS I'm aware of is Postgres. The moment Postgres has the feature range of SQL Server (SSIS, SSRS, SSAS), supports the same HA features without hassle, and is generally even half as easy to manage, I'll switch. Meanwhile, life's too short for me to want to become a "real" DBA.

SQL Server has some extra tools, as you've pointed out. You can probably find open source tools equally as powerful (and, by definition, more flexible) to perform those tasks. Granted, you may have to invest some time finding and learning those tools - but really, that's just life. Sometimes it's worth putting in the effort [1]. I've found that the main difference is how you work as a developer. If you're happy using…

SQL Server gives you both. They have a UI for everything, and everything you do has an option to script. So you might go through the whole wizards for replication, then when done, save off a T-SQL script. To my knowledge, there's nothing that requires the UI; it's there just to make things easier. Then on top of that, they expose an API you can use for further automation, if T-SQL isn't to your liking.

Your example is particularly odd: RESTORE DATABASE bla FROM DISK = 'file.bak' The docs are quite comprehensive, with lots of useful examples[1].

MS deserves some flak for UI-only, but SQL Server isn't one of those products (at least since 2005). MS products in general are also becoming much more scriptable, as Powershell access is becoming a requirement for new products.

I prefer a clicky interface for things I'm not going to do often (like configure a new cluster) or things I don't want to commit to memory or have to look up. Anytime I need to repeat, I either read docs and construct a command, or if it's a complicated thing, I'll use the wizard to generate a base script and modify as needed.

1: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms186858.aspx

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