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Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

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Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#31

Post by [deleted] »

dualogy wrote: post #20
ajross wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. They're not trying to make it impossible to detect IE. They're trying to make sure that all the "IE mode" quirks and workarounds out there in the wild don't get triggered on IE11 and break things. Basically, they're moving to a standards-compliant model like WebKit or Gecko and they want to take advantage of all the standards-compliant layouts that developers are producing. But the only way to do that is t…

> Basically, they're moving to a standards-compliant model like WebKit or Gecko I think that was the professed and proclaimed goal for every IE version since 8, or maybe even back at 7? I keep hearing that for years, and what this intention delivers in the end is yet more "IE modes": n "browser modes" times 2 "document modes". Quirks mode. "Compatibility view." So for IE 11, web developers would have two choices: tes…

[deleted]

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#32

Post by ajross »

narcissus wrote: post #21
ajross wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. They're not trying to make it impossible to detect IE. They're trying to make sure that all the "IE mode" quirks and workarounds out there in the wild don't get triggered on IE11 and break things. Basically, they're moving to a standards-compliant model like WebKit or Gecko and they want to take advantage of all the standards-compliant layouts that developers are producing. But the only way to do that is t…

How does taking advantage of standards-compliant layouts requiring breaking the past? I mean, if they're truly standards-compliant layouts, then they shouldn't be doing anything that requires that old stuff, and therefore they shouldn't be affected whether that stuff stays in or not. Or maybe I'm missing something. Don't get me wrong, it sounds like it's headed in the right direction, but to me, at least, it's more a…

You're missing the point. If they're truly standards-compliant and they "look like" IE6, then they'll get the IE6 layout the site author added and miss out on the new features. So IE11 will look bad and crufty no matter how good it's engine is. The point here is to make it "Look like WebKit" or "Look like Gecko", so that site designers don't try to support old IE versions.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#33

Post by bsimpson »

I was at CES last year, and the showing of the IE team was my favorite part of the trip. They were a bunch of younger guys who basically said "We know the guys who used to work here did some terrible things in our name. We're changing that, and we're here to tell you about it." They seemed like really cool dudes.

I even went over to the mall to try a Surface when they came out. Then, I realized Windows 8 is still Windows and walked out empty handed. The stuff MS is doing with Metro and touch is really interesting (as were tablet PCs before that), but I feel like they're still building on three decades of crufty sands. It's time for their System 9 -> OS X transition.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#34

Post by aclimatt »

Aardwolf wrote: post #7

If they change the UA, why didn't they take this opportunity to get rid of these ridiculously long UA's that mention competing browser brand names, and just make their UA string the following: "Windows NT 6.3; Trident/7.0; rv 11.0"

The "Mozilla" part of the user agent has been maintained for historical reasons, and could potentially break compatibility if removed. Originally it was used to detect frames. It may not be used in the majority of user agent sniffers these days, but I doubt Microsoft is interested in testing their luck removing it.

http://webaim.org/blog/user-agent-string-history/

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#35

Post by chadzawistowski »

bsimpson wrote: post #33

I was at CES last year, and the showing of the IE team was my favorite part of the trip. They were a bunch of younger guys who basically said "We know the guys who used to work here did some terrible things in our name. We're changing that, and we're here to tell you about it." They seemed like really cool dudes. I even went over to the mall to try a Surface when they came out. Then, I realized Windows 8 is still Win…

Windows 8 may still be Windows, but WinRT is very much the System 9 -> OS X transition. Windows 8 supports both the old Win32 APIs and the new WinRT APIs.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#36

Post by comex »

venomsnake wrote: post #23
thesis wrote: post #15

Really tired of all the different versions of IE. Why oh why can't it just be "Internet Explorer" without all these individual versions that pigeonhole themselves?

Because of the "brilliant" decision to integrate the IE engine way too deep into windows to the point of unseverability. So you get one-two IE versions per OS lifecycle. Enjoy ...

I like how this was such a big issue when Microsoft did it, but nobody cares that there is a systemwide WebKit.framework on OS X that various applications use internally. I know there are some differences, but it's pretty much the same thing.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#37

Post by runjake »

tomelders wrote: post #25

I still don't forgive Microsoft for being absolutely massive tools in the past. As such, they have a higher bar to jump over if they want me to acknowledge that they have created a "modern" browser. They have to make a browser that beats every other browser in it's standards compliance, stability and performance. They have to create the greatest browser that has ever been and ever will be. And only then will I even c…

> I still don't forgive Microsoft for being absolutely massive tools in the past.

As a person who seems to defend Microsoft quite often on HN, I can't shake the feeling that if they get to first place in anything, they'll become massive tools once again.

I like seeing them as the underdog, it forces Microsoft to be kinder and more free, but I think innovation and progress would be seriously hindered (once again) if they grabbed the crown in a particular space.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#38

Post by hackmiester »

dualogy wrote: post #20
ajross wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. They're not trying to make it impossible to detect IE. They're trying to make sure that all the "IE mode" quirks and workarounds out there in the wild don't get triggered on IE11 and break things. Basically, they're moving to a standards-compliant model like WebKit or Gecko and they want to take advantage of all the standards-compliant layouts that developers are producing. But the only way to do that is t…

> Basically, they're moving to a standards-compliant model like WebKit or Gecko I think that was the professed and proclaimed goal for every IE version since 8, or maybe even back at 7? I keep hearing that for years, and what this intention delivers in the end is yet more "IE modes": n "browser modes" times 2 "document modes". Quirks mode. "Compatibility view." So for IE 11, web developers would have two choices: tes…

Couple of corrections.

- Apple didn't license WebKit. Apple created WebKit, by forking Konqueror's engine.

- Chrome doesn't update without restarting. (Unless you mean restarting the machine, in which case, of course not! What kind of browser would require a machine reboot to... oh.)

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#39

Post by alipang »

dualogy wrote: post #20
ajross wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. They're not trying to make it impossible to detect IE. They're trying to make sure that all the "IE mode" quirks and workarounds out there in the wild don't get triggered on IE11 and break things. Basically, they're moving to a standards-compliant model like WebKit or Gecko and they want to take advantage of all the standards-compliant layouts that developers are producing. But the only way to do that is t…

> Basically, they're moving to a standards-compliant model like WebKit or Gecko I think that was the professed and proclaimed goal for every IE version since 8, or maybe even back at 7? I keep hearing that for years, and what this intention delivers in the end is yet more "IE modes": n "browser modes" times 2 "document modes". Quirks mode. "Compatibility view." So for IE 11, web developers would have two choices: tes…

Presto... :(
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