Good thing for the internets
I can't see why anyone in their right mind would be downvoting this comment. You can't down vote the truth.
Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”
131–140 of 190 posts
Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”
#132I still don't forgive Microsoft for being absolutely massive tools in the past. As such, they have a higher bar to jump over if they want me to acknowledge that they have created a "modern" browser. They have to make a browser that beats every other browser in it's standards compliance, stability and performance. They have to create the greatest browser that has ever been and ever will be. And only then will I even c…
I have cursed at working around IE quirks more times than I can remember, but I don't dump all the blame on Microsoft. Why is this the top comment, it is just a rant/whine? What other browser released at the same time as IE6 would work well (or at all) with them modern web? Microsoft has given customers a choice on whether to update their browser or not, and by in large they haven't. Then it becomes Microsoft's fault…
Many individual customers you might be able to blame, but as a group, they are best considered as simply a Force of Nature with no capacity to accept responsibility. Many of them can't upgrade because their on old machines with old OSs, or because they're on a work machine and their company has policies about these things (which can probably also be traced back to Microsoft), or because they are just plain technically incompetent (and while one may decide to blame them for that, it's not fair to double-count when it makes them incapable of choosing to not use IE6, or 7, or 8). And those who can and do upgrade have little capacity to make any different in the rest of this enormous group. Since "consumers" as an aggregate are therefore incapable of fixing the problem, it makes little sense to lay all the blame on them.
Microsoft, on the other hand, is in a position to fix everything for the consumers, and they so far choose not to.
Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have cursed at working around IE quirks more times than I can remember, but I don't dump all the blame on Microsoft. Why is this the top comment, it is just a rant/whine? What other browser released at the same time as IE6 would work well (or at all) with them modern web? Microsoft has given customers a choice on whether to update their browser or not, and by in large they haven't. Then it becomes Microsoft's fault…
Working as a developer right now, I can tell you that even IE10 has odd, noncompliant quirks. And then there's IE9 and IE8 to support as well.
I'm not even doing that much actual web work right now and still I stumbled over Chrome, Opera and Safari bugs in the last year. IE 10 works surprisingly well, the only thing I had less problems with was FF.
Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”
#134I still don't forgive Microsoft for being absolutely massive tools in the past. As such, they have a higher bar to jump over if they want me to acknowledge that they have created a "modern" browser. They have to make a browser that beats every other browser in it's standards compliance, stability and performance. They have to create the greatest browser that has ever been and ever will be. And only then will I even c…
Agree 100%. As someone who's been doing web development since 1995, I have wasted an enormous amount of my life dealing with IE-specific bugs. This is enough for me to feel uncomfortable even thinking about Internet Explorer and has tainted me against Microsoft products in general...
Do you remember NS 4.x and JSSS/translated CSS at all? I do. IE was many, many times better and easier to develop for. (And, frankly, their box model, equivalent to border-box, was the right way to go.)
Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just use something open-source - you'll get the Awesome [1] edition on any kind of chip. I never understood why some people prefer to buy licensed stuff from Oracle or Microsoft. Do you like pain? [1] http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/07/oh-you-wanted-aweso...
I never understood why some people prefer to buy licensed stuff from Oracle or Microsoft. Do you like pain? "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM equipment"
Right, there is more than one sort of pain. There is the pain your developers feel when they work with something painful, and there is the pain managers feel when they have to justify "not buying IBM" when something goes wrong (something will go wrong regardless, that is the nature of the beast).
So people "buy IBM" because they don't like pain.
Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I still don't forgive Microsoft for being absolutely massive tools in the past. As a person who seems to defend Microsoft quite often on HN, I can't shake the feeling that if they get to first place in anything, they'll become massive tools once again. I like seeing them as the underdog, it forces Microsoft to be kinder and more free, but I think innovation and progress would be seriously hindered (once again) if t…
In a way it has happened already with the XBox. After (in my opinion) winning the previous generation of console wars, they set out to ignore their main audience to appeal to the ones their marketing team has decide to target. The only thing I really liked seeing from MS recently was Sharepoint 2013, which really is very good, especially for developers.
Really? I'd actually be interested to hear more about Sharepoint. My experience with it is getting to be awhile ago, and it was VERY unpleasant. What does it do for developers now?
Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Couple of corrections. - Apple didn't license WebKit. Apple created WebKit, by forking Konqueror's engine. - Chrome doesn't update without restarting. (Unless you mean restarting the machine, in which case, of course not! What kind of browser would require a machine reboot to... oh.)
> Apple didn't license WebKit. Apple created WebKit, by forking Konqueror's engine Of course, you're right. I was typing this faster than I was thinking.. Anyway, MS shouldn't even think of pulling something like this, on second thought---because rather than a render-engine replacement, it would end up as yet another "mode" in IE.. > Chrome doesn't update without restarting Of course the binary cannot replace itself…
Chrome will display an update arrow on the menu/address bar. If you haven't restarted in a while, it will eventually become a rather insistent red.
Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fix the old bad monoculture with a new shiny monoculture.
WebKit is LGPL and BSD licensed though. I don't care about a monoculture if it's a culture where everyone gets to modify the innards for the greater good.
The problem isn't making changes to the source. The monoculture or de-facto standards come up because those are the rendering engines used by users. You can make WebKit or Trident a billion times better but it won't matter to web developers or users until users adopt the new code.
Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”
#139I foresee a funny side effect: IE 11 users visiting old sites will get "This site is best viewed with Internet Explorer" messages.
This actually happens.
Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
This was already addressed in msie10 or maybe possibly earlier. Auto updates are enabled by default.
... and every IT department is forced to deploy a Group Policy which disables them.
But they do the same for other browsers, so really it just puts everything on the level.