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Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

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Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#111
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they meant feature updates, not security updates. And those come not very frequently, but agreed, even then, they are automatic (unless some moron disabled Windows Update).

That was what I meant. IE now auto updates to the latest version. That means new features.

But you won't get shiny new features every six weeks, which I feel is what most of these comments are aiming at.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#112
post #45

I still don't forgive Microsoft for being absolutely massive tools in the past. As such, they have a higher bar to jump over if they want me to acknowledge that they have created a "modern" browser. They have to make a browser that beats every other browser in it's standards compliance, stability and performance. They have to create the greatest browser that has ever been and ever will be. And only then will I even c…

I thank your bad mood for brightening up mine! That was spectacular and joyful to read and I agree wholeheartedly. The sad thing is that when I was "designing for IE" as a young lad, I had no idea that's what I was doing. "The browser" was what came with the computer and that was Netscape and later IE. It took a while to wean myself off of : if (document.all) { } And when I discovered other continents to explore, I r…

That comment reminded me of the Microsoft ad video targeted at web devs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD9FAOPBiDk&hd=1

Interesting and funny video, regardless of if you think anything changed.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#113
post #75
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it being open source have anything to do with it? People didn't like it when MS did it because it introduced additional unwanted bloat in the OS that was annoying to decouple.

That's not what I remember. It was more about it having remotely-exploitable vulnerabilities without being uninstallable.

You're incorrect. And technically speaking the browser wasn't integrated with the OS (and never was), it was the rendering engine (shdocvw.dll and mshtml.dll). The Windows UI featured HTML elements that the OS rendered via this. The rendering engine is not itself connected to any TCP/IP stack, so remote exploits are impossible. But ofcource if you went to web sites with malicious HTML you could get ownzored because of bugs in the rendering engine.

Also you could delete the browser (iexplore.exe) but not the engine as the OS relied on certain UI elements that used this engine. Ofcource if you went ahead and deleted the DLLs anyway, you could make the OS work without the added HTML UI layer (as the judge in the MS antitrust case demonstrated). One could argue that this wasn't the "full" Windows experience but hey.. all that is water under the bridge now. The case is resolved and MS got slapped with a hefty fine.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#114
post #113
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what I remember. It was more about it having remotely-exploitable vulnerabilities without being uninstallable.

You're incorrect. And technically speaking the browser wasn't integrated with the OS (and never was), it was the rendering engine (shdocvw.dll and mshtml.dll). The Windows UI featured HTML elements that the OS rendered via this. The rendering engine is not itself connected to any TCP/IP stack, so remote exploits are impossible. But ofcource if you went to web sites with malicious HTML you could get ownzored because o…

Actually IE6 and older tied the IE user interface to the Explorer user interface which shared the same SHDOCVW. IE7 created IEFRAME to separate the Explorer user interface from the IE user interface, but it is still in system32, and so are all the other core IE components like MSHTML, WININET, etc...

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#116
post #99

I was at CES last year, and the showing of the IE team was my favorite part of the trip. They were a bunch of younger guys who basically said "We know the guys who used to work here did some terrible things in our name. We're changing that, and we're here to tell you about it." They seemed like really cool dudes. I even went over to the mall to try a Surface when they came out. Then, I realized Windows 8 is still Win…

(Disclaimer: I worked on IE from 2007-2013) Yes, the current IE team is extremely strong, and has only gotten smarter & stronger during the time I worked there. There's tons of meetings I've walked out of where we made a decision to do X rather than Y because "the standard says to do X" and it was the guiding principle for decision-making.

That's really good to hear. But why was the non-standard way even an option?

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#117

The root of the problem is not IE specific behavior, but lack of auto-updating feature. If MS doesn't remove a barrier between versions, nothing will change.

This was already addressed in msie10 or maybe possibly earlier. Auto updates are enabled by default.

... and every IT department is forced to deploy a Group Policy which disables them.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same way about everything MS has produced/is planning on producing in the near future. IE, Windows 8, Xbox One, Microsoft Office, the list just goes on.

Everything about Windows 8 to me just feels like a kick in the groin from Microsoft. For many years now they've claimed that .Net was the present and future of Microsoft development; yet it seems they've shoved it into the back seat and likely next into the trunk of deprecation.

I'm with you. I've been an aficionado of WPF and WCF since day 1, and am always hoping that with every version WPF would get enhanced just a little closer to the DirectX wire, not completely replaced by that stunted Windows 8 XAML junk.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#119
post #114
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're incorrect. And technically speaking the browser wasn't integrated with the OS (and never was), it was the rendering engine (shdocvw.dll and mshtml.dll). The Windows UI featured HTML elements that the OS rendered via this. The rendering engine is not itself connected to any TCP/IP stack, so remote exploits are impossible. But ofcource if you went to web sites with malicious HTML you could get ownzored because o…

Actually IE6 and older tied the IE user interface to the Explorer user interface which shared the same SHDOCVW. IE7 created IEFRAME to separate the Explorer user interface from the IE user interface, but it is still in system32, and so are all the other core IE components like MSHTML, WININET, etc...

Are you talking about the UI controls or the browser?iexplore.exe could be deleted at any time. Ofcource because explorer.exe also could handle URLs you could technically still browse via it. (Though I'm pretty sure that by default only URLs in the local/trusted zone were allowed)

And then I believe the help component also relied on the rendering engine. Although the hcp:// vulnerabilities were in the protocol handler (helpctr.exe) and the ms-help:// vulnerabilities were also in the protocol handler which allowed the attacker to bypass ASLR/DEP.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#120
post #119
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually IE6 and older tied the IE user interface to the Explorer user interface which shared the same SHDOCVW. IE7 created IEFRAME to separate the Explorer user interface from the IE user interface, but it is still in system32, and so are all the other core IE components like MSHTML, WININET, etc...

Are you talking about the UI controls or the browser?iexplore.exe could be deleted at any time. Ofcource because explorer.exe also could handle URLs you could technically still browse via it. (Though I'm pretty sure that by default only URLs in the local/trusted zone were allowed) And then I believe the help component also relied on the rendering engine. Although the hcp:// vulnerabilities were in the protocol handle…

True, HTML Help definitely relies on the IE rendering engine. And yea particularly in IE6 I don't think iexplore.exe itself does very much.
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