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Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

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Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#21

Post by narcissus »

ajross wrote: post #13
Toshio wrote: post #10

Correct me if I'm wrong. If a web developer is hell-bent on detecting ie, they could look for the presence of the activex API (like jQuery currently does in order to provide a uniform AJAX interface).

Of course. They're not trying to make it impossible to detect IE. They're trying to make sure that all the "IE mode" quirks and workarounds out there in the wild don't get triggered on IE11 and break things. Basically, they're moving to a standards-compliant model like WebKit or Gecko and they want to take advantage of all the standards-compliant layouts that developers are producing. But the only way to do that is t…

How does taking advantage of standards-compliant layouts requiring breaking the past?

I mean, if they're truly standards-compliant layouts, then they shouldn't be doing anything that requires that old stuff, and therefore they shouldn't be affected whether that stuff stays in or not. Or maybe I'm missing something.

Don't get me wrong, it sounds like it's headed in the right direction, but to me, at least, it's more about forcing crappy older sites to update their stuff than anything else.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#22

Post by kyriakos »

dpratt wrote: post #16
kyriakos wrote: post #4

this is good news. it will no longer stop IE users from visiting those sneaky sites who block users for using IE. it also makes it clear that Microsoft is finally serious about making a good browser that people WANT to use. now if they make their developer tools anywhere as good as firebug they'll have a winner. hiring some of the firebug team might be a good idea.

In all seriousness, I really do think that MSFT has an uphill battle when it comes to having non-enterprise web developers adopt IE as their primary platform for development. I'm sure that IE 11 is/will be a perfectly fine browser and comparable to Chrome/Firefox, but they still have the requirement that you must use Windows. I have no problem targeting IE11 as an end-user platform for my apps, especially now since i…

call me crazy but I am a web developer not working for the enterprise and using windows 8 as main OS. If the dev tools of IE were superior to the competition be sure I'd be using it for development. I am sure I'm not a unique case.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#23

Post by venomsnake »

thesis wrote: post #15

Really tired of all the different versions of IE. Why oh why can't it just be "Internet Explorer" without all these individual versions that pigeonhole themselves?

Because of the "brilliant" decision to integrate the IE engine way too deep into windows to the point of unseverability.

So you get one-two IE versions per OS lifecycle. Enjoy ...

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#25

Post by tomelders »

I still don't forgive Microsoft for being absolutely massive tools in the past. As such, they have a higher bar to jump over if they want me to acknowledge that they have created a "modern" browser. They have to make a browser that beats every other browser in it's standards compliance, stability and performance. They have to create the greatest browser that has ever been and ever will be. And only then will I even consider giving them a ounce of recognition.

Not that Microsoft (or anyone for that matter) cares what I think, but that's the price I've set in order for MS to pay off the debt it's worked up over the years as I wasted weeks, possibly months of my life getting things to work in their turd of a.... a.... a looking-at-the-web-kind-of-application-thing. I wont even call it a browser.

Or better yet, I wish IE was thrown away and forgotten about, and like Voldemort, it's name would only ever be heard in hushed whispers lest it's evil spirit be awoken. It would become a ghost story web developers tell their web developing kids; "Be standards compliant, or IE6 will come and get yoooOOOOU!".

But then I'm old and cranky. The kids will probably love IE19b Custard Pro Home Edition and they'll rally behind it to get IE back to the number 1 slot because it's somehow retro and cool, and I'll laugh in their spotty faces when IE regains it supremacy and Microsoft turns around and shits in their stupid faces all over again, and the internet becomes a desolate wasteland where Bing is the only search engine and the top hit is always an Encarta entry.

Wow, I'm in a special kind of a bad mood today.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#26

Post by jeffasinger »

dpratt wrote: post #16
kyriakos wrote: post #4

this is good news. it will no longer stop IE users from visiting those sneaky sites who block users for using IE. it also makes it clear that Microsoft is finally serious about making a good browser that people WANT to use. now if they make their developer tools anywhere as good as firebug they'll have a winner. hiring some of the firebug team might be a good idea.

In all seriousness, I really do think that MSFT has an uphill battle when it comes to having non-enterprise web developers adopt IE as their primary platform for development. I'm sure that IE 11 is/will be a perfectly fine browser and comparable to Chrome/Firefox, but they still have the requirement that you must use Windows. I have no problem targeting IE11 as an end-user platform for my apps, especially now since i…

Developing for IE10 kind of makes sense right now, if you're on a windows machine. IE10 is one of the most picky browsers about certain things, so you can catch potential problems early by doing that.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#27

Post by ripter »

tomelders wrote: post #25

I still don't forgive Microsoft for being absolutely massive tools in the past. As such, they have a higher bar to jump over if they want me to acknowledge that they have created a "modern" browser. They have to make a browser that beats every other browser in it's standards compliance, stability and performance. They have to create the greatest browser that has ever been and ever will be. And only then will I even c…

I feel the same way. I've wasted so many hours on IE specific bugs that they have to really prove themselves before I'll even consider trusting them again.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#28

Post by BillyMaize »

tomelders wrote: post #25

I still don't forgive Microsoft for being absolutely massive tools in the past. As such, they have a higher bar to jump over if they want me to acknowledge that they have created a "modern" browser. They have to make a browser that beats every other browser in it's standards compliance, stability and performance. They have to create the greatest browser that has ever been and ever will be. And only then will I even c…

I feel the same way about everything MS has produced/is planning on producing in the near future. IE, Windows 8, Xbox One, Microsoft Office, the list just goes on.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#29

Post by ax »

narcissus wrote: post #21
ajross wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. They're not trying to make it impossible to detect IE. They're trying to make sure that all the "IE mode" quirks and workarounds out there in the wild don't get triggered on IE11 and break things. Basically, they're moving to a standards-compliant model like WebKit or Gecko and they want to take advantage of all the standards-compliant layouts that developers are producing. But the only way to do that is t…

How does taking advantage of standards-compliant layouts requiring breaking the past? I mean, if they're truly standards-compliant layouts, then they shouldn't be doing anything that requires that old stuff, and therefore they shouldn't be affected whether that stuff stays in or not. Or maybe I'm missing something. Don't get me wrong, it sounds like it's headed in the right direction, but to me, at least, it's more a…

This is explicitly about getting more sites to work /without/ forcing older sites to update their stuff. Older sites have ifIE() checks that return true and serve IE old legacy IE-specific code. IE11 is more compatible with standards-compliant code than legacy IE-specific code so forcing existing sites to serve IE the same code as FF/Chrome results in more sites working in IE.

Re: Internet Explorer 11: “Don’t call me IE”

#30

Post by trafficlight »

venomsnake wrote: post #23
thesis wrote: post #15

Really tired of all the different versions of IE. Why oh why can't it just be "Internet Explorer" without all these individual versions that pigeonhole themselves?

Because of the "brilliant" decision to integrate the IE engine way too deep into windows to the point of unseverability. So you get one-two IE versions per OS lifecycle. Enjoy ...

At the very least they could push real updates more than once a Service Pack.
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