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Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

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Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#121

Post by zaphoyd »

Groxx wrote: post #63
altcognito wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google homeschooling resources, and begin talking to the homeschooling groups in your local area. Homeschooling has a network of families that support each other generally. It's the easiest and best way to get started. Plus, you'll get a lot of guidance on what resources are good and which are a waste of time.

Having been homeschooled, this is a great suggestion. It's pretty easy to get too isolated, and homeschooling groups help a lot. Also check with your local schools - I was able to take 2 classes while still being classified as 'homeschooled', for free (since it's part of taxes already), which can give access to tools that are otherwise way too expensive.

Seconding this. I was also allowed to take two classes at the local high school free while being homeschooled. Useful for classes that benefit from in classroom interactions (foreign language) or expensive equipment (science labs).

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#122

Post by squozzer »

chris_mahan wrote: post #111
jacalata wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you arguing that boys are intrinsically badly suited to a highly regulated environment that expects them to do exactly as they are told as soon as they are told? You should tell the army.

why do you think the armies around the world have to threaten recruits with corporal punishment, prison, and even execution when they don't follow orders?

Don't forget the constant drill-and-ceremony, both in training and once stationed to a permanent post.

For those who don't "habla", drill-and-ceremony (D&C) is the "attention, left face, forward march" stuff that fills a good portion of footage about military life, not to mention certain films such as Full Metal Jacket.

Oh, and don't forget the role played by PT (Physical Training) in producing human drone-killers.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#123

Post by bambax »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #34
speeder wrote: post #24

Although I was a generally calm student (I am introverted and not into causing mayhem or attracting attention), I never copied from the blackboard, don't did my homework, slept during classes, or instead kept drawing, or later writing ASM code or toying with physics formulas, or I just outright spent my time chatting about video games with whoever was nearby. Every time I had a new teacher, my parents were called int…

Ah, to have grown up in an education system where homework and in-class participation aren't counted as some huge part of the grade!

Exactly. In France it used to be that finals counted for 100% of the grade (everything else for zero).

That's the thinking behind the "bac" that marks the end of high school: you either have it (weighted average >= 10/20) or you don't, but what your teachers thought about you is irrelevant (except in special cases where your average is 9.8 for example).

Everything else used to work the same as the "bac": you study, or you don't, during the year, and at the end of the year a big exam tested whether you know anything or not.

Before my time it was even stronger; my mother (who's 80 and studied in the 1950s) was able to get her law degree without ever going to law school (she was a full-time secretary and studied law at night). She was a very fine lawyer and won most her cases (including a few for me ;-)

This is an incredibly fair system. What matters is, can you answer the questions on the test (and BTW, questions used to be real questions that you had to answer using full sentences and actual reasoning, never MCQs).

But things are changing. Things have always been changing, but now they're changing faster. People complain that setting up exams is costly whereas the marginal cost of tracking in-class participation is nil (since the teacher is already there anyway).

This is very silly and very unfair. What in-class participation measures is conformity/ability to repeat what the teacher wants to hear, NOT competence or knowledge.

Rating - or paying any attention to - in-class participation is confusing the means with the end. The end is knowledge/personal development. Listening to the teacher while sitting still, or "partipating" (?) is but one of the means to achieve this goal.

In this month's "Who's hiring?" thread I came upon an ad from "ClassDojo", the stated mission of which is to "manage behavior in the classroom" by "easily award[ing] feedback points for behavior in class in real-time, with just one click of your smartphone or laptop".

This upset me in more ways than I can describe.

Teachers should seek to ENGAGE students, not "manage their behavior".

Modern schooling seems to aim at training donkeys for a circus show, using treats provided by the likes of ClassDojo.

This is as far removed from "education" as possible; education is about autonomy of the mind.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#124

Post by StacyC »

It’s unnatural for most any human to be expected to sit and focus on tedious crap for hours on end, especially children.

We live in one of the top school districts in Texas, and three years ago took our two boys out to homeschool them. No religious motivations, just got fed up with the bullshit custom we continue to call “education” in this culture.

They are learning, thriving, curious, creative and happier than ever.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#125

Post by eli_gottlieb »

jsnk wrote: post #95
jahewson wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In China the kids take on an extraordinary workload, because long hours show dedication - but they're not learning effectively - instead they all cheat, bribe the teacher, etc. The appearance of working hard and actually working hard/effectively are two different things. Don't be fooled by cultures with endemic corruption. Germany obviously excluded.

>instead they all cheat, bribe the teacher, etc. This is wrong. Sure there are stories of Chinese students, parents and teachers cheating the system, but keep in mind that China is a country of whopping 1.3 billion people.

Just this past week they had a riot because some poor teachers tried to crack down on cheating.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#126

Post by fr0sty »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #116
sanarothe wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to say that you might want to consider public high school. There's a lot of social development going on there, even if most people come out of the entire system bitter.

Agreed. In college, the kids who were home educated before just seem . . . off. And I say that as a slightly off person myself.

> In college, the kids who were home educated before just seem . . . off

This particular bias is probably why the normal people in college who were home-schooled didn't volunteer that information to you.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#127

Post by camus »

dccoolgai wrote: post #36
camus wrote: post #3

Yeah , stop trying to teach kids discipline, especially when there is none at home ...

Aside from the flippant tone, I sort of agree with the point...judging by the habits that I see a lot of millenials exhibiting in the workplace, the general breakdown of discipline in primary education over the last 2-3 decades has not served students well in the classroom or on the job. I think it has mostly to do with "helicopter parenting" ("WHAT? My kid is not the problem, you are!") ... where teachers used to be…

Teachers used to be respected , but today you cant count on parent supports for the child education.

If the child has bad grades, it is because of the teacher , if the child cannot behave , it is the teacher's fault.

But for not one second parents question their parenting, Teachers get harassed , punched and even sued by parents when these teachers just try to do their job.

With parents like that ,well , these children will never behave like adults, since their parents are not either.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#128

Post by archon »

Groxx wrote: post #63
altcognito wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google homeschooling resources, and begin talking to the homeschooling groups in your local area. Homeschooling has a network of families that support each other generally. It's the easiest and best way to get started. Plus, you'll get a lot of guidance on what resources are good and which are a waste of time.

Having been homeschooled, this is a great suggestion. It's pretty easy to get too isolated, and homeschooling groups help a lot. Also check with your local schools - I was able to take 2 classes while still being classified as 'homeschooled', for free (since it's part of taxes already), which can give access to tools that are otherwise way too expensive.

> Having been homeschooled, this is a great suggestion.

Agreed. I was homeschooled as well, and homeschool groups were absolutely vital to making the experience a success for me. I did great teaching myself at home, but especially in high school, I needed outside classes and outside social activities. The city I grew up in had a huge homeschool community, so it was easy to find classes on a wide variety of subjects.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#129

Post by zhemao »

Puer wrote: post #50
sarchertech wrote: post #23

School is half education and half babysitting. The problem is that schools aren't aware of that, and they try to cram too much learning/work into a day at school. Kids just don't have the attention span. College isn't taught this way. Colleges realize that even young adults can't handle 40 hours a week of continual instruction, why do we do this kids can? I think the reason, is that we're always behind other countrie…

How come they don't seem to have this problem in China, India or Germany? It isn't that kids can't handle the workload, the problem is the boring curriculum.

How do you know they don't have this problem? In India and China, literacy rates are lower than in the US, and a much smaller percentage graduate secondary school (or even go to secondary school). The kids who can't sit still or study effectively probably don't stay in school. Plus, have you ever heard firsthand accounts of Chinese or Indian school curricula? It's a bunch of rote memorization and math drills. The American curriculum at least tries to encourage independent thought and creativity.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#130

Post by ivix »

samatman wrote: post #77
derleth wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they never went to school in the first place. Similarly, the average high schooler was better back then because the average person stopped their education at the eighth grade, if not sooner. (Note to non-Americans: In the US, high school runs from ninth to twelfth grade, usually named freshman, sophomore, junior, and senior years.)

More to the point, the children/teenagers in question range from 13 to 18 years of age. I gather that "12th grade" is meaningless in much of the world.

Thanks. It was kind of cute how the american terms were explained using more american terms.
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