Title should really say "NY State Senators." (It used to say NY Senators which I would assume is NY US Senators, but it's been changed.)
In many local governments, car dealerships are some of the largest businesses and financial contributors.
NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY
111–120 of 138 posts
Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY
#112Any evidence to back up Musk's claim? Being a Senator's employee must be annoying sometimes. "Hi, I'm calling to defend Telsa Motors because its CEO told me to. No, I do not know anything more about the topic I am calling about"
He referenced the bill shortly thereafter: http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=S05725&term=2013 http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A07844&term...
So.. what part of it specifically is anti-Tesla? That is one painful read. I need an abstract or some annotations.
Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY
#113Any evidence to back up Musk's claim? Being a Senator's employee must be annoying sometimes. "Hi, I'm calling to defend Telsa Motors because its CEO told me to. No, I do not know anything more about the topic I am calling about"
Additional details about the situation: "Tesla Clashes With Car Dealers" http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732404950457854... or http://bit.ly/16UCd7s
Thanks. That helped me figure out what the bill was about.
So basically the status quo is that manufacturers are legally forced to go through franchised car dealers to sell their cars. And this is because Ford used independent car dealers to sell their cars initially; but as time went on and manufacturers wanted to sell directly, these laws were passed to protect existing franchised car dealerships.
Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY
#114I will appreciate if anyone can address me some explanation about this matter. Personally I want to know why auto dealers want to shut down Tesla, aren't they just dealers, are they?
They want to force Tesla to go through them, instead of selling direct to consumer. Tesla not going through the dealerships is bad for the dealerships business.
Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
Short answer: Think "the Apple Store" of car dealerships. Long answer: I don't think the mass market is in Tesla's future anymore. They're too late. There are too many competitive new entry level entrants from Honda, Nissan, Ford etc. I don't think Musk cares. He strikes me as a guy with a mission - to get us off fossil fuels - and he's doing that. I think his deal to supply the motor industry shows you where Tesla w…
> There are too many competitive new entry level entrants from Honda, Nissan, Ford etc. I completely lost you there. Where are these competitive new entry level models? e.g.: The Nissan Leaf absolutely does not compare with the Model S in range, speed, style, ecosystem, internals, etc, etc. There really is no EV competition for Tesla. There is competition from non-EV luxury vehicles, but Tesla is beating most of them…
Musk has always stated the end goal is a $30k car for the masses. He wants to disrupt the entire auto industry not the S or 7 series market. It's that mass market window though that I think is closing. But I suspect if it closes he's OK as he met his goal. And Telsa may provide some or all that key tech and still flourish.
Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is the Apple Store an analogy to Tesla establishing dealerships? As far as I know, Apple Stores are owned and operated directly by Apple and are thus direct sales, while dealerships are third-parties/franchisees that buy from the manufacturer and re-sell to the consumer.
You're super literal. Imagine completely re-designing the car dealership experience so that it becomes a positive to the buying experience vs a negative. Secondly, who said the dealership has to be a franchise? Lastly, franchise's (even if you did that) have to follow some pretty strict guidelines. So you could drive the process hard.
The important distinction here is that dealerships don't constitute direct sales since they are not owned nor operated by the manufacturer. The question @pedrocr posed was why would it be necessary for Tesla to begin working with third-party dealerships at scale - they could still continue building their own showroom floors and continuing direct sales through their own channels. If they continued their direct sales process, it would not be ironic, as you claim, since they'll still be circumventing the dealership middleman.
Note: This has nothing to do with good/bad experiences. That's not what defines a dealership.
Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll be interested in seeing how those senators feel about tax revenue lost if lots of people end up going out of state to buy expensive cars. It's not like it's that hard to find a border to go across in New York.
Without looking, I'm going to say it's a pretty safe bet that New York has taxes that take effect when you transfer a car in-state.
I don't believe that's true. You don't get charged sales tax multiple times just because you're moving your property to another state.
That being said, I doubt a low volume car constitutes any significant amount of tax revenue.
Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY
#118Because the government is completely ran by corporations and Musk isn't in "the club" (yet). Gone are the days where the consumer is uneducated and the supplier doesn't have a way to easily and effectively communicate with customers everywhere from anywhere. There's a pretty good doc on Netflix, "Park Avenue: Money, Power and the American Dream", which covers some of the financial backing of congress and how it affec…
Are you telling me Space X, Tesla, and Solar City haven't had any special deals with the government? This is the funniest thing I've read on HN.
NO, he never got any special deals.
Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Law is code. Why haven't we fixed this yet? Properly drafted English-language laws do read as code. It's like how you can describe formal logic in English: "All Americans wear hats. I am an American. Therefore I wear a hat." I take it you're arguing for something like Lojban, though. I see two problems there. First, it's not the (de facto) national language, which infringes on one's fundamental right to read the la…
> First, it's not the (de facto) national language, which infringes on one's fundamental right to read the laws of the land... Legaleese requires you to take years of law classes to even understand, and makes the same problem. I think it's more accessible to run something through a compiler...
Legaleese requires you to take years of law classes to even understand
No it doesn't.
Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Acutally, no. State Senators Zeldin and Carlucci sponsored a bill that it would make it impossible for Tesla to operate in NYS. Now while New York Auto Dealers is likely to have lobbied for this bill, the State Senators nominally wrote the legislation and sponsored the bill. In New York, the legislative session is winding down, so it is a particularly dangerous time for bad legislation to be introduced.
I'll be interested in seeing how those senators feel about tax revenue lost if lots of people end up going out of state to buy expensive cars. It's not like it's that hard to find a border to go across in New York.
They don't lose revenue... You pay tax where you register, unless you live out of state.