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NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY

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Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY

#21

Post by echohack »

echohack wrote: post #16
untog wrote: post #3

Any evidence to back up Musk's claim? Being a Senator's employee must be annoying sometimes. "Hi, I'm calling to defend Telsa Motors because its CEO told me to. No, I do not know anything more about the topic I am calling about"

How does this bill effect Telsa? Does Telsa have it's own company run franchises in New York or something? I've read the bill ( http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A07844&term... ) several times now, and it only seems to prohibit the franchisor from forcing franchisees from doing certain things. I'm not seeing text in here like, "We hereby force all franchisors to sell cars through franchisees." or "Sell…

To help answer my own question, I think I get it, maybe...

"The commissioner shall not issue any certificate of registration authorized by this section to any franchisor, MANUFACTURER, DISTRIBUTOR BRANCH OR FACTORY BRANCH..."

The rest of bill then talks all about franchisors, and mentions manufacturers very little. So perhaps there's something in here that doesn't allow New York to give registration to manufacturers, and only makes rules for franchisors.

Still, this stuff is arcane. It's like reading assembly code.

Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY

#22

Post by revelation »

echohack wrote: post #16
untog wrote: post #3

Any evidence to back up Musk's claim? Being a Senator's employee must be annoying sometimes. "Hi, I'm calling to defend Telsa Motors because its CEO told me to. No, I do not know anything more about the topic I am calling about"

How does this bill effect Telsa? Does Telsa have it's own company run franchises in New York or something? I've read the bill ( http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A07844&term... ) several times now, and it only seems to prohibit the franchisor from forcing franchisees from doing certain things. I'm not seeing text in here like, "We hereby force all franchisors to sell cars through franchisees." or "Sell…

I think it might be this? The format is terrible.

The commissioner shall not issue any certificate of registration authorized by this section to any franchisor, MANUFACTURER, DISTRIBUTOR BRANCH OR FACTORY BRANCH,

(caps are additions)

I think the way Tesla has been doing business in many states is that they have just applied for dealership licenses.

Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY

#23

Post by sinnerswing »

leetrout wrote: post #6

Because the government is completely ran by corporations and Musk isn't in "the club" (yet). Gone are the days where the consumer is uneducated and the supplier doesn't have a way to easily and effectively communicate with customers everywhere from anywhere. There's a pretty good doc on Netflix, "Park Avenue: Money, Power and the American Dream", which covers some of the financial backing of congress and how it affec…

Elon Musk reminds me of Preston Tucker. Lots of similarities between Tesla Motors and Tucker Corp.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Tucker

Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY

#24

Post by Shivetya »

leephillips wrote: post #14
untog wrote: post #3

Any evidence to back up Musk's claim? Being a Senator's employee must be annoying sometimes. "Hi, I'm calling to defend Telsa Motors because its CEO told me to. No, I do not know anything more about the topic I am calling about"

I bet it does get annoying trying to find ways to spin your boss's servitude to a cartel of car dealerships as somehow being for the benefit of the public.

The current arrangement came about as a means to benefit the manufacturers. The carrot was that they in turn would not attempt to circumvent the dealer system.

Hence manufactures would produce cars in volume and sell them to the dealers. The dealers who made that investment in buying those cars then sold them for a profit. Dealers are protected by these same laws usually geographically. This in some way insulated the manufacturers from market fluctuations and allowed more efficient factories.

Plus you cannot pass up the test drive. Really, would you buy a car without a test drive? Dealers took that job which does incur some risk of loss. It was a good idea at the time. Society was not as integrated as it now, you could not just look up your car in any sense of the word we do now.

Just like other franchise setups, they are entrenched and not necessarily bad. Would you rather be beholden to a large auto maker or have a small shop to talk to in the event of a problem? A sole dealership will be more likely want to create a long term relationship and would work to solve you problems, a distant manufacturer who is large could afford to blow you off.

Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY

#25

Post by cobrausn »

peterwwillis wrote: post #17
cobrausn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked, bills get introduced by representatives, not auto dealers.

Congratulations, you missed the point.

Feel free to restate it in such a way that it isn't so easily missed.

Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY

#26

Post by [deleted] »

echohack wrote: post #21
echohack wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this bill effect Telsa? Does Telsa have it's own company run franchises in New York or something? I've read the bill ( http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A07844&term... ) several times now, and it only seems to prohibit the franchisor from forcing franchisees from doing certain things. I'm not seeing text in here like, "We hereby force all franchisors to sell cars through franchisees." or "Sell…

To help answer my own question, I think I get it, maybe... "The commissioner shall not issue any certificate of registration authorized by this section to any franchisor, MANUFACTURER, DISTRIBUTOR BRANCH OR FACTORY BRANCH..." The rest of bill then talks all about franchisors, and mentions manufacturers very little. So perhaps there's something in here that doesn't allow New York to give registration to manufacturers,…

[deleted]

Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY

#27

Post by fragmede »

echohack wrote: post #16
untog wrote: post #3

Any evidence to back up Musk's claim? Being a Senator's employee must be annoying sometimes. "Hi, I'm calling to defend Telsa Motors because its CEO told me to. No, I do not know anything more about the topic I am calling about"

How does this bill effect Telsa? Does Telsa have it's own company run franchises in New York or something? I've read the bill ( http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A07844&term... ) several times now, and it only seems to prohibit the franchisor from forcing franchisees from doing certain things. I'm not seeing text in here like, "We hereby force all franchisors to sell cars through franchisees." or "Sell…

Green car Report's reading of these two bills is this would make it illegal for Tesla to register cars in the state by making it impossible for the state to register any vehicle not purchased from a franchisee.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1084963_new-york-auto-de...

Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY

#28

Post by larrys »

untog wrote: post #3

Any evidence to back up Musk's claim? Being a Senator's employee must be annoying sometimes. "Hi, I'm calling to defend Telsa Motors because its CEO told me to. No, I do not know anything more about the topic I am calling about"

Is this the way "it's" really supposed to work? Someone everyone "knows" says something and people immediately spring into action on the social media machine. Without considering anything about the situation. Just "it's the old way, we are new, this must be bad" please help us.

Pretty soon things like this will become so commonplace they will be ignored (by people or the people being contacted) the same way 10 tornados a day would fail to get the attention of anyone but those directly impacted.

Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY

#29

Post by just2n »

agildehaus wrote: post #4
untog wrote: post #3

Any evidence to back up Musk's claim? Being a Senator's employee must be annoying sometimes. "Hi, I'm calling to defend Telsa Motors because its CEO told me to. No, I do not know anything more about the topic I am calling about"

He referenced the bill shortly thereafter: http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=S05725&term=2013 http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A07844&term...

English, specifically whatever dialect that is, is a horrible medium for encoding laws.

Further, the diffing format used there is atrocious.

Law is code. Why haven't we fixed this yet?

Re: NY auto dealers trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY

#30

Post by Spooky23 »

peterwwillis wrote: post #11
smackfu wrote: post #10

Title should really say "NY State Senators." (It used to say NY Senators which I would assume is NY US Senators, but it's been changed.)

"NY State Senators allegedly trying to shut down Tesla Motors in NY" would be nice too. Though really, even that's incorrect: it's the automakers who are alleged to be doing this, not state senators. But screw it, let's spread some FUD. Let me go post on Facebook about how the government is trying to destroy Elon Musk.

Acutally, no. State Senators Zeldin and Carlucci sponsored a bill that it would make it impossible for Tesla to operate in NYS. Now while New York Auto Dealers is likely to have lobbied for this bill, the State Senators nominally wrote the legislation and sponsored the bill.

In New York, the legislative session is winding down, so it is a particularly dangerous time for bad legislation to be introduced.

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