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I Am Bradley Manning

iam.bradleymanning.org

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Re: I Am Bradley Manning

#51

Post by jussij »

pekk wrote: post #40
jussij wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that same exact logic would also justify the 2003 invasion of Iraq... Tony Blair dragged the Brits to war by lying in parliament when he said there was evidence Saddam's military had a WMD capability that could reach London and could be ready to go within 45 minutes. Colin Powell stood up in the UN a rattled of another bunch of lies with assertions of mobile Iraqi biological-warfare labs and a "sinister nexus" betw…

That's an overstatement, for example Powell himself has expressed regret about those statements

It is a known fact Powell lied to the UN (since he is obviously offering an apology for something) but by saying sorry somehow that makes it all ok?

Hundreds of thousands of people died as a result of that lie! How is that an overstatement?

Re: I Am Bradley Manning

#52

Post by gcb0 »

mpyne wrote: post #28
nikcub wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

800 people died in Egypt, 300 in Tunisia, 8 in Algeria, 120 in Bahrain To put this into context, over 2000 people died in Iraq in only the last month . This is years after the war being 'over' and many more years after mission accomplished, and the monthly death total is still greater than the net total of the Arab Spring revolutions You can't compare Iraq to the Arab spring nations that democratized peacefully. You…

I'm glad you think the war in Iraq was bad, because so do I. But why would it be OK for someone to have a hand in 116,000+ deaths for democracy but not be OK to have a hand in 600,000+? There's no good answer to this question, which is why I don't see why Manning would want to be known as the instigator of it all. The rest of your points, even if we simply specify them as true, don't really explain why Manning's own…

politics is all about compromises and gains.

you vote for whoever gives you more advantages. not the more just or whatever fairy tale... if it weren't for other people also wanting often advantages on opposite areas, the only limit would be your morals.

So, for me, a nobody middle class, 100k deaths for democracy/political freedom/etc is much better than 600k deaths for the interests of an elite i'm not part. Your example does not stand a millisecond of analysis. The answer is clear as the day.

even if the numbers were inverses, it's still the political, democratic, sound choice on the 1st, that gives me advantages.

Re: I Am Bradley Manning

#53

Post by frozenport »

exposing_truth wrote: post #33

The site features another falsehood: "There is no evidence that anyone died as a result of the leaked information" Not true. The cables contained the actual names of Afghans who helped us fight the Taliban. Once their names were exposed, unredacted, via the Wikileaks calbes, "punishment" and death -- courtesy of the ascendant Taliban leaders -- came quickly. http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2010/07/28/murphy-rides…

I want to agree with you but you account is extremely fishy. Your name is a joke and this is your only post. Are you a US government agent?

Re: I Am Bradley Manning

#54

Post by doki_pen »

mpyne wrote: post #15
ekianjo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

mpyne, funny I see you a lot around these kind of topics these days :) Anyway, you make good points. But regarding the Arab Spring, even if Manning was indeed a catalyst for these movements (which I highly doubt), having an uprising does not always lead to thousands of deaths. As you can see those who were responsible for the deaths in these countries were the government leaders who refused to listen to the crowd and…

Think of it though, if I set a bomb somewhere and someone else tells you to walk over near it, that person bears some measure of responsibility as well, because they know the consequences that must result from a bomb detonation. If Manning is to take some of the credit for the Arab Spring then he must also bear some of the responsibility. You don't topple despots without bloodshed, so by all means take credit for you…

This is a very popular argument when blaming woman for being raped.

Re: I Am Bradley Manning

#55

Post by gasull »

mpyne wrote: post #3

1. I like how they attack the strawman with their "aiding the enemy" means "the public is the enemy?!?" claim. They were suspiciously quiet about the news OBL (presumably an enemy) had information leaked by Pfc. Manning. But I suppose propaganda techniques are only wrong when it's the government or McDonald's, eh? 2. Manning has explicitly been removed from death penalty consideration earlier in the trial process. Th…

> If no one died because of information he leaked then why try to claim credit for those uprisings?

Apples and oranges. The Government claimed that the leaked cables were putting informants at the risk of dying. No informant has died because of the leaks. So yes, "there is no evidence that anyone died as a result of the leaked information".

Re: I Am Bradley Manning

#56

Post by expoze_truth »

gruseom wrote: post #37
exposing_truth wrote: post #33

The site features another falsehood: "There is no evidence that anyone died as a result of the leaked information" Not true. The cables contained the actual names of Afghans who helped us fight the Taliban. Once their names were exposed, unredacted, via the Wikileaks calbes, "punishment" and death -- courtesy of the ascendant Taliban leaders -- came quickly. http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2010/07/28/murphy-rides…

This is a troll. I like to look at contrarian evidence, so I read the article. It contains zero evidence and is just a creepy piece of fantasy writing. Perhaps evidence does exist, but odds are we'd have heard about it by now, given how hard it's been sought (presumably by people who don't lack for media access).

"Perhaps evidence does exist, but odds are we'd have heard about it by now"

But that depends on how you -- and others -- filter your news sources. Many on one side of the political spectrum have no clue how far the IRS over-reached when investigating political enemies ... and they won't know, because they trust their sources of news and unfortunately don't look for contrarian viewpoints like you do.

(btw: I'm not blaming you of the above; you've proven you seek diverse sources of information)

Re: I Am Bradley Manning

#57

Post by mpyne »

doki_pen wrote: post #54
mpyne wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of it though, if I set a bomb somewhere and someone else tells you to walk over near it, that person bears some measure of responsibility as well, because they know the consequences that must result from a bomb detonation. If Manning is to take some of the credit for the Arab Spring then he must also bear some of the responsibility. You don't topple despots without bloodshed, so by all means take credit for you…

This is a very popular argument when blaming woman for being raped.

No, as the women being raped are not witting planners in their own attack.

This is, on the other hand, a very popular argument when blaming the getaway car drivers of bank robberies.

Re: I Am Bradley Manning

#58

Post by doki_pen »

mpyne wrote: post #57
doki_pen wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very popular argument when blaming woman for being raped.

No, as the women being raped are not witting planners in their own attack. This is, on the other hand, a very popular argument when blaming the getaway car drivers of bank robberies.

Are you trolling? You think Manning was a witting planner of Arab Spring?

Re: I Am Bradley Manning

#59

Post by mpyne »

doki_pen wrote: post #58
mpyne wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, as the women being raped are not witting planners in their own attack. This is, on the other hand, a very popular argument when blaming the getaway car drivers of bank robberies.

Are you trolling? You think Manning was a witting planner of Arab Spring?

You may not be able to read it because it's faded, but I mentioned the reasoning earlier. You do not "inspire" pro-democracy uprisings without knowing full-well that people will die.

Re: I Am Bradley Manning

#60

Post by mixmastamyk »

neurotech1 wrote: post #46
mixmastamyk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saudi Arabia (like Kuwait) doesn't have much of a military, but it is absolutely crucial to the world energy market. The US will apparently spare no expense to protect it. That and genwin's reason.

Saudi Arabia has one of the largest and well supported Air Forces in the middle east, other than Israeli AF. The RSAF has 250+ fighter/attack aircraft in service. F-15s and Tornado's mainly. Also another 120 F-5E/F fighter "trainers" available. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Saudi_Air_Force#Current_a...

That's fine. It would still have been quite vulnerable to a ~1990 Iraq. Even a ~2000 era Iraq wouldn't need to conquer the country, but merely strike critical oil infrastructure. They were thought to have chemical weapons, etc.

If you don't believe the US cares much about such things, I recommend the book (unfortunately titled) "Blood and Oil" by M. Klare.

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