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Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

reuters.com

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Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#111

Post by flyinRyan »

onli wrote: post #30
Cass wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing surprising about the German tolerance of the US military bases, considering that they do nothing whatsoever to interfere with our lives or inconvenience us in any way, but do provide quite a lot of jobs. These are mostly medical or training facilities, many of them operated jointly by American and German forces, not some occupying force that's intent on overrunning our government or controlling the ci…

Isn't the US already (slowly) withdrawing/reducing the stationed troops? Besides, germany wouldn't really have a chance. The few nuclear rockets we control would probably not be ready in time. The USA could just bomb germany down, like it was planned in case of a war with the UDSSR.

If the US attacked Germany, the rest of Europe would instantly go to war with the US. Russia would likely attack the US as well (as good a time as any) and who knows what China might do. The US spends the most on military but considering they haven't won a fight since WWII (which would have ended the same with or without them) I don't see that they're that good.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#112

Post by flyinRyan »

zalew wrote: post #69
return0 wrote: post #4

this is a great movie about surveilance in the east germany. I don't know how accurate though. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/

[trying to say without spoilers] the inaccurate/ridiculous part is that he couldn't do what he did because every one of them had another agent(s) on them precisely to prevent such occurences. they spied on and controlled each other just like they did on citizens. other than that - great movie, and depiction of the strong influence such agencies had on personal lives (to make someone or destroy someone) is accurate. y…

My understanding was the only reason what he did worked was because the whole thing was winding down. 2 years prior and things wouldn't have worked out so well at all.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#113

Post by zalew »

flyinRyan wrote: post #112
zalew wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[trying to say without spoilers] the inaccurate/ridiculous part is that he couldn't do what he did because every one of them had another agent(s) on them precisely to prevent such occurences. they spied on and controlled each other just like they did on citizens. other than that - great movie, and depiction of the strong influence such agencies had on personal lives (to make someone or destroy someone) is accurate. y…

My understanding was the only reason what he did worked was because the whole thing was winding down. 2 years prior and things wouldn't have worked out so well at all.

There were thaw periods around the countries of the block and agencies sometimes tended to chill out a bit with their activites, but on the other hand on Berlin's memorials you can find people whose deaths are dated even just a few months before the falling of the wall, so I don't know, to be honest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lives_of_Others#Reception

Slavoj Žižek, reviewing the film for In These Times, criticized the film's perceived softpedaling of the oppressiveness of the German Democratic Republic, as well as structure of the playwright's character, which he thought was not very likely under a hard communist regime.[23] Anna Funder, the author of the book Stasiland, in a review for The Guardian called The Lives of Others a "superb film" despite not being true to reality. She claims that it was not possible for a Stasi operative to have hidden information from superiors because Stasi employees themselves were watched and almost always operated in teams

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#114

Post by ericd »

lbebber wrote: post #65
ericd wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone's interested in learning a bit more about the Stasi, The Lives of Others is a great film about a man who works for the Stasi, tasked with spying on some influential people.

It's a great film, but I've read that it's not an accurate portrayal of the Stasi.

Ah yeah, it's definitely not a documentary, sorry I was unclear. Pgeorgi has it right - I meant that it was interesting more from the standpoint of what having something like the Stasi around does to people.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#115

Post by tsotha »

EliRivers wrote: post #107
tsotha wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn't have any military bases in Iraq. The Japanese could certainly ask us to leave, and we would. But they don't, because except for a vocal minority they do want us there. And Afghanistan is a war zone. I wouldn't consider that anything but an occupation. Which, I might add, they brought on themselves, so I don't have much sympathy.

Yes indeed, legally declining to extradite someone totally justifies being invaded and occupied.

In this case it was. Absolutely. One of the duties of a government is to control what goes on in its territory. Legally we had an iron-clad casus belli.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#116

Post by tekromancr »

arethuza wrote: post #99
tekromancr wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can just imagine the shooter videogame from 2110 That has you blasting away at charicatureized evil Americans.

I think it would be rather good fun to write Tom Clancy style sprawling techno-thriller where it was the USA who were the bad guys. [NB This is not because I have anything against the USA, just that I've got rather bored over the years with Russia/China being the enemy of choice for authors].

Spec Ops: The Line used that to great effect as a way to humanize the thousands of people you kill over tge course of the game.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#117

Post by ekianjo »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #104
mayneack wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily, the US hasn't declared war since Vietnam anyway.

Weren't both Vietnam and Korea wars the US was simply involved in, instead of them declaring war against someone / a nation / a government? Similarly, Iraq and Afghanistan, iirc the US merely cooperated with the UN to er. Do something with those countries.

For Iraq as far as I remember the UN was opposed to any intervention. They went on their own.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#118

Post by EliRivers »

tsotha wrote: post #115
EliRivers wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes indeed, legally declining to extradite someone totally justifies being invaded and occupied.

In this case it was. Absolutely. One of the duties of a government is to control what goes on in its territory. Legally we had an iron-clad casus belli .

Legally, the UN charter and thus US law makes it clear invading another country can be done in self-defense or by approval of the security council. Neither of those conditions were met. Legally, you're talking nonsense. The U.S. government knew this. They labelled Taliban troops terrorist-supporters rather than soldiers so that they could ignore the law. Invading a country and bombing big lumps of it into oblivion and then occupying it for a decade because you fear a handful of non-state actors who might or might not be inside it; both illegal and fucking ridiculous, and far more damaging to the US than a grown-up response would have been.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#119

Post by tsotha »

EliRivers wrote: post #118
tsotha wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case it was. Absolutely. One of the duties of a government is to control what goes on in its territory. Legally we had an iron-clad casus belli .

Legally, the UN charter and thus US law makes it clear invading another country can be done in self-defense or by approval of the security council. Neither of those conditions were met. Legally, you're talking nonsense. The U.S. government knew this. They labelled Taliban troops terrorist-supporters rather than soldiers so that they could ignore the law. Invading a country and bombing big lumps of it into oblivion an…

>Legally, the UN charter and thus US law makes it clear invading another country can be done in self-defense or by approval of the security council. Neither of those conditions were met.

Nonsense. That's as clear a case of self defense as you're going to find.

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