Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 119 posts

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#101

Post by nraynaud »

rz2k wrote: post #40
Cass wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing surprising about the German tolerance of the US military bases, considering that they do nothing whatsoever to interfere with our lives or inconvenience us in any way, but do provide quite a lot of jobs. These are mostly medical or training facilities, many of them operated jointly by American and German forces, not some occupying force that's intent on overrunning our government or controlling the ci…

It is also worth pointing out that the occupation of Germany ended in 1955. The US military has a policy of being forward deployed around the globe, so it negotiates agreements with may countries around the world to station troops in strategic locations. The military bases are there as a result of legal agreements and treaties, not because they would forcibly resist any attempts to expel them, and there is no sentime…

I've lived in Heidelberg for a while (with Germans) and I don't think the Americans there were really well seen. The MP cars in the streets (or the US imported cars in general), flying italian bottled water to US then back to Germany to avoid paying taxes, the fact that many American people born on German territory (children of military families) don't even bother to learn german, the gated communities etc. Plus the fact that the Iraq and Afganistan operation where headquartered there, the resentment seemed quite high.

(I just googled it and I see it's deactivated on april 1st 2013 actually)

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#103

Post by nraynaud »

gamblor956 wrote: post #64
Swizec wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for the tiny fact that you attack Germany, you attack EU. And that's pretty much a world war right there. Nobody wants another world war, don't be silly. M.A.D. still exists by the way. It's still why all major nations are at peace and why the EU gave so much flak to the US a few years ago when Bush wanted to install a nuclear shield. He later had to back down or serious stuff would've happened. (afaik) Also,…

Oh no! The EU! A political body which requires unanimity to make any decision ! We tremble in fear... In all seriousness though, the EU does not currently extend to defense; it is currently only a political and economic union. France and Germany have proposed extending the EU to include common defense, but as of today it had not yet been ratified by either the European Council or the member states. See, e.g., the Tre…

good news, because there has been military help treaties between neighboring countries a long time before EU was really standing up.

Fun factoid: France lets Switzerland use part of its territory to defend Geneva. And also let it fly its plane over FR territory because CH is so small that it's not practical for pilots training.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#104

Post by Cthulhu_ »

mayneack wrote: post #79
ekianjo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is also worth pointing out that the occupation of Germany ended in 1955. Interestingly, though, Germany never signed a peace treaty with the US. It only signed a "cease-fire" with the US to end the war. :)

Luckily, the US hasn't declared war since Vietnam anyway.

Weren't both Vietnam and Korea wars the US was simply involved in, instead of them declaring war against someone / a nation / a government? Similarly, Iraq and Afghanistan, iirc the US merely cooperated with the UN to er. Do something with those countries.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#106

Post by arethuza »

digitalengineer wrote: post #96
arethuza wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries have all kinds of crazy plans in place in case crazy things happen. e.g. The UK had plans involving "shooting guards at American nuclear weapon stores in England if they proved uncooperative" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/in-the-eve...

Correct. But the International Tribunal isn't exactly 'a crazy thing*. Would it be 'crazy' to uphold (Coalition) troops to the same standard as 'the bad guys'?

Personally, I think it is a great thing (I'd ship a certain former Prime Minister off to it) - but I'm not American.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#107

Post by EliRivers »

tsotha wrote: post #72
lostlogin wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh, so it's forward deployment, not some modern version of colonialism. It should be noted that US bases aren't always loved or even well tolerated. See Japan, Iraq, Afghanistan et al.

The US doesn't have any military bases in Iraq. The Japanese could certainly ask us to leave, and we would. But they don't, because except for a vocal minority they do want us there. And Afghanistan is a war zone. I wouldn't consider that anything but an occupation. Which, I might add, they brought on themselves, so I don't have much sympathy.

Yes indeed, legally declining to extradite someone totally justifies being invaded and occupied.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#108

Post by hga »

1123581321 wrote: post #80
hga wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Wikipedia, as of 2010 the US military has 52,440 people in Germany, and as of 2013 the German military had 188,921 active personnel and as of 2010 144,000 in their reserves. That falls a bit short of "occupation" in my book. There has in fact been at least one technothriller based on the US military fighting its way out of Germany, based of course on the Anabasis ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabasis_(…

What is that book?

I'm thinking of Harold Coyle's appropriately named The Ten Thousand (http://www.amazon.com/The-TEN-THOUSAND-Harold-Coyle/dp/06718...), just in case we wondered what inspired it ^_^.

The Anabasis has inspired more than a few: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabasis_(Xenophon)#Cultural_in..., and if you're read it the words "the sea, the sea!" never fail to inspire.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#109

Post by hga »

EliRivers wrote: post #107
tsotha wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn't have any military bases in Iraq. The Japanese could certainly ask us to leave, and we would. But they don't, because except for a vocal minority they do want us there. And Afghanistan is a war zone. I wouldn't consider that anything but an occupation. Which, I might add, they brought on themselves, so I don't have much sympathy.

Yes indeed, legally declining to extradite someone totally justifies being invaded and occupied.

The Taliban, assuming they weren't in league with al-Qaeda, violated Niven's Law 1b, "Never stand next to someone who is throwing shit at an armed man."

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#110

Post by flyinRyan »

Cass wrote: post #16
woah wrote: post #2

Not surprising. With the Gestapo, and then the Stasi, the Germans have an extensive cultural memory of the effects of comprehensive government surveillance of their lives. They are still surprisingly tolerant of the long term military occupation of their country by the US. It would have been interesting if Snowden had holed up in Germany instead of HK. I wonder if the inevitable US military extradition would have tes…

There's nothing surprising about the German tolerance of the US military bases, considering that they do nothing whatsoever to interfere with our lives or inconvenience us in any way, but do provide quite a lot of jobs. These are mostly medical or training facilities, many of them operated jointly by American and German forces, not some occupying force that's intent on overrunning our government or controlling the ci…

Keep telling yourself that but I've never seen a German base in the USA.
Post reply on HN