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Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

reuters.com

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Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#61

Post by lostlogin »

mpyne wrote: post #37
DasIch wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are nevertheless armed among other things with nuclear weapons.

Those aren't the nukes that Germany would have to worry about. The U.S. attacking Germany is even more paranoid than chem-trail mind control agents, I'm just throwing that in to go along with the hypothetical.

It doesn't take an attack for there to be problems. Accidents, leaks, contamination, poor behaviour and violence by troops etc is somewhat more likely. That and the external appearance of supporting what ever the stationed troops are up to (often related to regional/nearby wars etc).

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#62

Post by lostlogin »

fwenzel wrote: post #50
njharman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One year, 2010, is not long term. Germany had been heavily occupied (by several nations) from end of WWII until recently. Recently being last 20years or so.

{{citation-needed}}

Are you joking?

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#63

Post by danbruc »

rdouble wrote: post #57
sentenza wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I principally agree with you, I must add that _the_ data protection related historical event that impressed me most is how the Nazis used the excellent Dutch census data that fell into their hands to round up the Jews of the Netherlands. I don't know how widespread knowledge of this is (I was taught it in school), but I've heard it brought up a few times in discussions about personal data.

The Stasi weren't involved with that, as they did not exist until 1950.

[...] how the Nazis used the excellent Dutch census data [...]

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#64

Post by gamblor956 »

Swizec wrote: post #33
onli wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the US already (slowly) withdrawing/reducing the stationed troops? Besides, germany wouldn't really have a chance. The few nuclear rockets we control would probably not be ready in time. The USA could just bomb germany down, like it was planned in case of a war with the UDSSR.

Except for the tiny fact that you attack Germany, you attack EU. And that's pretty much a world war right there. Nobody wants another world war, don't be silly. M.A.D. still exists by the way. It's still why all major nations are at peace and why the EU gave so much flak to the US a few years ago when Bush wanted to install a nuclear shield. He later had to back down or serious stuff would've happened. (afaik) Also,…

Oh no! The EU! A political body which requires unanimity to make any decision! We tremble in fear...

In all seriousness though, the EU does not currently extend to defense; it is currently only a political and economic union. France and Germany have proposed extending the EU to include common defense, but as of today it had not yet been ratified by either the European Council or the member states. See, e.g., the Treaty of Lisbon. (Note that the Treaty of Lisbon technically removes the unanimity requirement in place of a "double majority" threshold (meaning >55% of vote from >65% of countries) beginning in 2014.)

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#65

Post by lbebber »

ericd wrote: post #41
arianvanp wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing WWII germany and post WWII germany. Stasi was the ministry for homeland security of East-Germany in the post-WWII era untill the fall of the wall (1950- 1989). It has nothing to do with the Nazis (1930ish to 1945) The Stasi was a way to take hold of the country and get it stable again after the nazi regime fell. Though they did that by turning _EAST_ (not west) germany into a police state.

If anyone's interested in learning a bit more about the Stasi, The Lives of Others is a great film about a man who works for the Stasi, tasked with spying on some influential people.

It's a great film, but I've read that it's not an accurate portrayal of the Stasi.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#67

Post by sciurus »

pekk wrote: post #55
wahsd wrote: post #17

Stasi.? Germans are simply shying away from comparing it to the Nazis' unimaginable wet dream because of a very self-conscious sensitivity about the matter. But don't fool yourselves, ignoring other unrelated, horrible outcomes that were a consequence of the times, this level of surveillance is by far worse than anything that has ever existed in all of human history. It is tantamount to mind reading, and without a do…

If what is happening today is worse than anything ever, including the Holocaust you are referring to, then where are the facilities where the US is slaughtering women and children of ethnic minorities in order to eliminate them from the earth?

I'm almost positive that the comment you're replying to meant "this is the worst level of surveillance ever", not "this surveillance is worse than anything ever".

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#69

Post by zalew »

return0 wrote: post #4

this is a great movie about surveilance in the east germany. I don't know how accurate though. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/

[trying to say without spoilers]

the inaccurate/ridiculous part is that he couldn't do what he did because every one of them had another agent(s) on them precisely to prevent such occurences. they spied on and controlled each other just like they did on citizens. other than that - great movie, and depiction of the strong influence such agencies had on personal lives (to make someone or destroy someone) is accurate.

you can also check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_%282012_film%29 with a bit similar theme.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#70

Post by dsuth »

gamblor956 wrote: post #64
Swizec wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for the tiny fact that you attack Germany, you attack EU. And that's pretty much a world war right there. Nobody wants another world war, don't be silly. M.A.D. still exists by the way. It's still why all major nations are at peace and why the EU gave so much flak to the US a few years ago when Bush wanted to install a nuclear shield. He later had to back down or serious stuff would've happened. (afaik) Also,…

Oh no! The EU! A political body which requires unanimity to make any decision ! We tremble in fear... In all seriousness though, the EU does not currently extend to defense; it is currently only a political and economic union. France and Germany have proposed extending the EU to include common defense, but as of today it had not yet been ratified by either the European Council or the member states. See, e.g., the Tre…

And of course, war has no impact on politics and tightly interwoven economies...
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