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Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

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Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#331

Post by NikaJessenia »

vijayboyapati wrote: post #233

As a libertarian, this travesty has given me some hope that my liberal friends will be somewhat more sketpical of the government as benevolent provider. For years and years I have seen people online belittle libertarians as crackpots and "tin foil hat conspiracy theorists". One wonders when the average joe will stop and come to terms with the fact that these "crackpots" were far more insightful about the nature of th…

The issue is with BAD government, not all government. America has a bad government because the government has been co-opted by a corporate elite.

Government should be a meritocracy where the smartest minds in the country elect representatives from their field of expertise. So instead of having the dumb public elect one or two figurehead politicians, you have well-educated people electing top minds in their own field, who represent the scientifically and intellectually validated viewpoint of those well-educated people.

Cronyism, nepotism and super-rich corporate privilege are what has destroyed the American government.

Libertarianism would also seek to destroy the American government, reverting to a state of anarchy where the super-rich corporatists simply rule everyone by virtue of their superior wealth, manpower, and organization.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#332

Post by angersock »

gohrt wrote: post #301
reader5000 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? It's easier to find inbred retards who want to shoot at "the Man" than actually maintaining an educated populace, so therefore we "cherish" the 2a? That is quite a novel interpretation of the 2a.

No, parent was saying that it easier for an educated subset of the populace to shoot at the Man than to educate her "inbred, retard" (to use your phrase) peers. Exhibit A: the American Revolution.

Erm, again, not quite.

I am suggesting that while the 1st and 4th amendments are very important, they alone are insufficient against jackbooted thugs; moreover, they appeal and are useful only to the relative intellectual elite of a country--if them.

The 2nd amendment, by contrast, expands the availability of force to the common man, and in so doing allows even the dullest and slowest hooligan to contribute to the process of political reform. Indeed, should the Man come calling, I would rather have a dozen armed rednecks and coon-asses standing with me than a few score of the best-spoken orators of our time.

It's unfortunate that things seem to be suggesting that this sort of calculus is becoming reasonable again.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#333

Post by jebblue »

freehunter wrote: post #153
jebblue wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> All those things I listed are well-documented. So are many of the positive events powertower mentioned. Either way, you don't even live in your own native country let alone the US, you don't have a dog in this hunt. Oh, and if you think Spain is a good example of a decent place to live; look up those bull runs. Barbaric.

I think that's a little harsh. We don't know the reasons why he's not living in NZ or why he's in Spain. Calling that into question and using that as an excuse to dismiss his claims is just wrong. I'm not agreeing with him and I'm not disagreeing with you. I just don't think the way you're attacking him is entirely appropriate.

He doesn't live in his own country (his fact not mine) and the one he chose (his fact not mine) has a violent history of torturing innocent animals that continues today. Yet he saw fit to criticize the US.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#334

Post by dalke »

To be complete, there are other historical cases of other countries granting asylum to US citizen, or people who didn't want to be US citizens.

Bobby Fischer was granted asylum by Iceland. Assata Shakur and roughly 100 other Americans have been granted asylum in Cuba. Norwood Peter DuBerg and family were granted asylum by Switzerland. Chere Lyn Tomayko was granted asylum by Costa Rica. Holly Collins was granted asylum by the Netherlands. Various people were granted asylum by the Soviet Union, but I can find no names.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#335

Post by DamnYuppie »

skaevola wrote: post #220
DamnYuppie wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you on the importance of the 1st and 4th amendments. I think the ACLU and EFF will indeed become stronger. I don't know of any 2nd amendment supporters who are also not strong 1st and 4th supporters, the issue comes down to how their voice is heard. Also I don't know any of them who who wouldn't rather change things peacefully, it is a much better solution.

I don't think this is true. There are many on the right who detest the ACLU as liberals trying to undermine the country.

Many as in raw # or as in percentage? To be honest I haven't met many of those, all the ones I know are more libertarians then conservatives so they don't take strong issue with the ACLU or EFF.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#336

Post by sneak »

Andrew_Quentin wrote: post #274
munificent wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where are all the street protests?! I'm going to interpret that question literally. A key thing you have to keep in mind is that in almost all of the US outside of a few very large cities, the "street" is not a useful public place. People don't gather and interact on streets in the US. They are merely channels for cars. Protesting on the streets would be as useful in most cities in the US as wandering around next t…

Squares or city centres are a good place, the Times Square being probably the best.

We were in Union Square at noon today for exactly the reasons this thread exists.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#337

Post by lostlogin »

newbie12 wrote: post #12
_airh wrote: post #8

It is strange that the same country which cherishes its 'right to bear arms' on the grounds that it gives them a level of protection that the government is unable to provide is 'happy' to build the infrastructure which allows the same government to peek into their lives. On the one hand, we don't trust the government with the basics (physical security). On the other, we trust them with information we don't want our p…

The right to bear arms is also, explicitly, a protection against tyranny BY the government. Thomas Jefferson: ""When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

You also end up with people fearing the people unfortunately. Not sure how that was missing from the original equation.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#338

Post by ppplllok »

Edward Snowden betray the country. If you don't do anything wrong, will you really care the government collect your information? If you didn't trust the bank,why you still deposit your money there? If the bank collect some information to avoid hacking issues , do you think it is unacceptable?

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#339

Post by nitrogen »

mpyne wrote: post #302
Abundnce10 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You bring up a good point. Maybe the best form of protest these days is not to take to the streets but rather take to the highways. Blocking a interstate highway going into/out of a large city might get more attention.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't care if you're protesting to support feeding starving kids, if you actually block traffic on a highway I will vote against your pet issue 100% of the time.

You point out an additional problem with protests: the methods that don't piss people off are ineffective at getting attention, and the methods that get attention just piss people off.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#340

Post by youngerdryas »

zanny wrote: post #311
youngerdryas wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly. A lot of people voted for Obama because he promised more transparency. He appears to be breaking his promises. If he was smart, which he hasn't seemed lately, he would use this crisis to try to regain some credibility.

He is the president of the United States. He is smart. A lot of background characters love it when you question the intellect of your leaders because you see intended aggression and depravity as incompetance and stupidity. Never blame a goverments wrongs on incompetance, blame them on those responsible and expect them to have a functional brain, because to get into the positions they have, they do have working brains…

So the reverse of never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. Glass half empty.
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