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Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

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Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#51

Post by droithomme »

mratzloff wrote: post #33
SwellJoe wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"was assaulted by" was raped by FTFY. Let's not mince words here. This was not merely assault (which can describe something as mild as a punch or a shove). This was rape, committed by multiple parties, followed by degradation on camera for others to see. And, the girl was so drunk/drugged that she probably should have been seen by a doctor...instead the people around her took it as an opportunity to prey upon her.

I meant "sexually assaulted", not simply "assaulted". I didn't omit the word as part of some pro-rape agenda. Anyway, I can't edit it now, unfortunately. Sexual assault generally means "unwanted penetration" (legally), which includes whatever happened here (unclear exactly from the articles I read).

"unclear exactly from the articles I read"

The participants posted their thoughts during the sex assault in real time to Facebook. It was these threads that Ms. Goddard saved, and which Mr. Lostutter then published (eventually leading to his arrest for 'hacking'). One thread stated that the girl must be dead because "You don't sleep through a wang in the butthole." This suggests that among the various events was someone engaged in anal insertion of their "wang" into the victim. They also bragged about what they themselves termed a "rape" in a separate incident the previous April.

Source: http://m.xojane.com/issues/steubenville-rape-verdict-alexand...

In the actual plea bargain the two that were sentenced admitted to "digital insertion", which is generally understood to be finger penetration. This seems to understate the extent of the rape however, based on the statements they made during the rape to their Facebook accounts.

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#52

Post by gyardley »

pyre wrote: post #40
mpyne wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Registered firearms" in a nation with the 2nd Amendment? Even in states that require it I wouldn't trust that info with my life. :) And either way I don't see why you'd not be OK with rifles but would be OK with handguns. Once you're OK with the arresting officers being armed the rest is just a matter of degree.

| the rest is just a matter of degree. Exactly. Sending a couple of armed officers vs. a SWAT team with snipers and helicopters. Let's not forget that the US taxpayers are footing the bill if every arrest involves a highly-trained 10-person team donning assault rifles, etc.

Man, I don't know. If I was a lot stupider and could get the drop on them, I might like my chances against two agents with handguns.

A SWAT team, on the other hand - I don't care how dumb, drunk, or high I am, if ten officers with heavy weaponry come with a helicopter escort, I know I'm going to lose.

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#53

Post by pyre »

gyardley wrote: post #52
pyre wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

| the rest is just a matter of degree. Exactly. Sending a couple of armed officers vs. a SWAT team with snipers and helicopters. Let's not forget that the US taxpayers are footing the bill if every arrest involves a highly-trained 10-person team donning assault rifles, etc.

Man, I don't know. If I was a lot stupider and could get the drop on them, I might like my chances against two agents with handguns. A SWAT team, on the other hand - I don't care how dumb, drunk, or high I am, if ten officers with heavy weaponry come with a helicopter escort, I know I'm going to lose.

Same with a tank, and the National Guard. Should they get involved too? :P

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#54

Post by mpyne »

pyre wrote: post #53
gyardley wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I don't know. If I was a lot stupider and could get the drop on them, I might like my chances against two agents with handguns. A SWAT team, on the other hand - I don't care how dumb, drunk, or high I am, if ten officers with heavy weaponry come with a helicopter escort, I know I'm going to lose.

Same with a tank, and the National Guard. Should they get involved too? :P

A tank would have a much higher risk of needless collateral damage compared to rifles, and the NG couldn't play anyways due to Posse Comitatus Act restrictions (except possibly if they were activated under the state governor's authority, I forget the specifics).

Either way the comment didn't say that "more force is always better" like you seem to go along with, only that a couple of agents with handguns are in a different category than a bunch of agents with rifles available. But once you have a bunch of agents with rifles, adding a tank or soldiers doesn't significantly change the risk equation for the Feds so even their ORM analysis would say not to do it.

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#55

Post by Dylan16807 »

damoncali wrote: post #35
mratzloff wrote: post #3

Here's a summary: A girl in a high school football-obsessed small town went to a party and was assaulted by football players who later bragged about it on Twitter. A blogger saw the posts (later deleted) and took screenshots. She tried to get justice for the victim by re-posting these on her blog. For this she was hounded relentlessly in the town and a defamation suit was brought against her. The players bragged that…

A blogger saw the posts (later deleted) and took screenshots. She tried to get justice for the victim by re-posting these on her blog. By the way, if anyone is ever in this situation, don't do this on behalf of the victim unless they ask you to. It may very well be perceived as a violation. I don't know the specifics here, but in general, this is not the way to help. Tread lightly. Rape victims are often cast aside b…

It sounds nice to put the victim's wishes first, until you realize that if the perpetrators aren't handled properly they might go on to victimize more people.

Thank you for bringing up something that needs to be considered, but situations like this are too complex for hard rules.

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#56

Post by damoncali »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #55
damoncali wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A blogger saw the posts (later deleted) and took screenshots. She tried to get justice for the victim by re-posting these on her blog. By the way, if anyone is ever in this situation, don't do this on behalf of the victim unless they ask you to. It may very well be perceived as a violation. I don't know the specifics here, but in general, this is not the way to help. Tread lightly. Rape victims are often cast aside b…

It sounds nice to put the victim's wishes first, until you realize that if the perpetrators aren't handled properly they might go on to victimize more people. Thank you for bringing up something that needs to be considered, but situations like this are too complex for hard rules.

I only bring it up because I've seen the unintended misery it can cause. People sometimes assume that these actions have only positive repercussions, and that just isn't so. This poor girl is plastered across the Internet unconscious, half naked, and abused. And her attackers got a year in juvie. Worth it? I'm not sure. You'd have to ask her.

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#57

Post by _bfhp »

sliverstorm wrote: post #46
mratzloff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant "sexually assaulted", not simply "assaulted". I didn't omit the word as part of some pro-rape agenda. Anyway, I can't edit it now, unfortunately. Sexual assault generally means "unwanted penetration" (legally), which includes whatever happened here (unclear exactly from the articles I read).

I didn't omit the word as part of some pro-rape agenda I'm not sure it's worth your time to contend this. The debate surrounding rape is very if-you-arent-with-us-youre-against-us, so too often it seems it's already a lost battle.

What debate is "surrounding rape" exactly? Are you referring to a debate as to whether rape is ethically permissible or not? If so, where do you hang out?

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#58

Post by Houshalter »

sliverstorm wrote: post #45
danso wrote: post #8

OK, this sounds pedantic, but "Convicted for Longer"* is not accurate...you're not convicted for a period of time, you're convicted and then sentenced to a period of jail time, or probation. And of course, as we all know from the Aaron Swartz coverage, " could serve for as long as..." is different than " actually serve a sentence of [xy] ears". But the most relevant quibble is this: a father who beats these rapists w…

I think we should be aware that there may be unpleasant consequences... Or as I like to put it, something about having your cake and eating it. We can't demand the administration turn a blind eye here, and rage at that same administration when they turn a blind eye there.

No one is asking to turn a blind eye, but a ten year sentence is absurd. If they actually get it that is.

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#59

Post by tomjen3 »

danso wrote: post #8

OK, this sounds pedantic, but "Convicted for Longer"* is not accurate...you're not convicted for a period of time, you're convicted and then sentenced to a period of jail time, or probation. And of course, as we all know from the Aaron Swartz coverage, " could serve for as long as..." is different than " actually serve a sentence of [xy] ears". But the most relevant quibble is this: a father who beats these rapists w…

Not only is it pedantic, you are a terrible human for wanting to lock a father who beats up a rapist for longer than the rapist.

These men were old enough to rape, they should be old enough to do the time and if your excuse was that they were juveniles, then just remember that they could (and should have been) charged as adults. Alas the bastards weren't, but that is prosecutal misconduct, not justice.

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#60

Post by anigbrowl »

tomjen3 wrote: post #59
danso wrote: post #8

OK, this sounds pedantic, but "Convicted for Longer"* is not accurate...you're not convicted for a period of time, you're convicted and then sentenced to a period of jail time, or probation. And of course, as we all know from the Aaron Swartz coverage, " could serve for as long as..." is different than " actually serve a sentence of [xy] ears". But the most relevant quibble is this: a father who beats these rapists w…

Not only is it pedantic, you are a terrible human for wanting to lock a father who beats up a rapist for longer than the rapist. These men were old enough to rape, they should be old enough to do the time and if your excuse was that they were juveniles, then just remember that they could (and should have been) charged as adults. Alas the bastards weren't, but that is prosecutal misconduct, not justice.

People like you are the reason I would waive my right to a jury trial. You are so caught up in your own bias that it causes you to literally see things that aren't there, like your accusation that danso 'want[s] to lock a father who beats up a rapist for longer than the rapist.'
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