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Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

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Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#31

Post by mpyne »

pyre wrote: post #15
gyardley wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you never know who's armed and who's not, in these cases they're probably just as worried about the destruction of evidence - a polite knock on the door and an 'excuse me, sir, we're the FBI' might give him time to erase or destroy something.

| While you never know who's armed and who's not This may be true, but if the person has no history of violence, isn't wanted for a violent offence, has no registered firearms, and is not known to have any radical anti-government / Michigan Militia-type views, then there is probably no reason for such an armed assault. | in these cases they're probably just as worried | about the destruction of evidence So a group of…

"Registered firearms" in a nation with the 2nd Amendment? Even in states that require it I wouldn't trust that info with my life. :)

And either way I don't see why you'd not be OK with rifles but would be OK with handguns. Once you're OK with the arresting officers being armed the rest is just a matter of degree.

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#32

Post by fatman »

gmu3 wrote: post #18

I feel like it is a little unfair comparing the number of years someone is sentenced and going to jail for and the number of years someone could go to jail for if they are found guilty and receive the max sentence. (Perhaps people don't think the hacker did anything that should be considered a crime worthy of a sentence that long, but that's a totally different argument)

Well, there's always the federal sentencing guidlines - they would provide a little insight into what he's really facing. Also, the rape charges were state (juvenile) charges, not federal. The federales don't mess around.

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#33

Post by mratzloff »

SwellJoe wrote: post #24
mratzloff wrote: post #3

Here's a summary: A girl in a high school football-obsessed small town went to a party and was assaulted by football players who later bragged about it on Twitter. A blogger saw the posts (later deleted) and took screenshots. She tried to get justice for the victim by re-posting these on her blog. For this she was hounded relentlessly in the town and a defamation suit was brought against her. The players bragged that…

"was assaulted by" was raped by FTFY. Let's not mince words here. This was not merely assault (which can describe something as mild as a punch or a shove). This was rape, committed by multiple parties, followed by degradation on camera for others to see. And, the girl was so drunk/drugged that she probably should have been seen by a doctor...instead the people around her took it as an opportunity to prey upon her.

I meant "sexually assaulted", not simply "assaulted". I didn't omit the word as part of some pro-rape agenda. Anyway, I can't edit it now, unfortunately.

Sexual assault generally means "unwanted penetration" (legally), which includes whatever happened here (unclear exactly from the articles I read).

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#34

Post by damoncali »

SwellJoe wrote: post #24
mratzloff wrote: post #3

Here's a summary: A girl in a high school football-obsessed small town went to a party and was assaulted by football players who later bragged about it on Twitter. A blogger saw the posts (later deleted) and took screenshots. She tried to get justice for the victim by re-posting these on her blog. For this she was hounded relentlessly in the town and a defamation suit was brought against her. The players bragged that…

"was assaulted by" was raped by FTFY. Let's not mince words here. This was not merely assault (which can describe something as mild as a punch or a shove). This was rape, committed by multiple parties, followed by degradation on camera for others to see. And, the girl was so drunk/drugged that she probably should have been seen by a doctor...instead the people around her took it as an opportunity to prey upon her.

When I was in college 20 years ago in Boulder the local feminists would get upset when people didn't say "assualt", or if they modified it with "sexual". I always maintained that assault wasn't as bad as rape or "sexual assault", but they wanted nothing of it.

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#35

Post by damoncali »

mratzloff wrote: post #3

Here's a summary: A girl in a high school football-obsessed small town went to a party and was assaulted by football players who later bragged about it on Twitter. A blogger saw the posts (later deleted) and took screenshots. She tried to get justice for the victim by re-posting these on her blog. For this she was hounded relentlessly in the town and a defamation suit was brought against her. The players bragged that…

A blogger saw the posts (later deleted) and took screenshots. She tried to get justice for the victim by re-posting these on her blog.

By the way, if anyone is ever in this situation, don't do this on behalf of the victim unless they ask you to. It may very well be perceived as a violation. I don't know the specifics here, but in general, this is not the way to help. Tread lightly. Rape victims are often cast aside by the government who cares only about prosecution and little about healing. We need not do the same in misguided attempts to help. Put the victim first.

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#36

Post by AnthonyMouse »

pyre wrote: post #14
imdsm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand this approach to a drug baron or armed fugitive, but to a hacker? Really 'merica? Way to go killing that fly with a sledge hammer!

Pick your explanation: * They need to justify all of their equipment and training so they make copious use of it. * They don't know if the person is armed or not, so better safe than sorry when it comes to the lives of agents. * "It's just standard procedure." ... etc

>They don't know if the person is armed or not, so better safe than sorry when it comes to the lives of agents.

I wonder if there are any actual statistics on this. We always hear the arguments about the number of accidental firearms deaths in favor of gun control, is there any reason to suspect the situation to be orders of magnitude different with a group of cowboy cops? If anything it could be worse in a group, because it turns the situation into a powder keg such that one shot fired by anyone (or anything that sounds like one) and you immediately have a massive firefight in an area populated by numerous friendlies and nearby civilians.

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#37

Post by lostlogin »

gyardley wrote: post #12
imdsm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand this approach to a drug baron or armed fugitive, but to a hacker? Really 'merica? Way to go killing that fly with a sledge hammer!

While you never know who's armed and who's not, in these cases they're probably just as worried about the destruction of evidence - a polite knock on the door and an 'excuse me, sir, we're the FBI' might give him time to erase or destroy something.

While >in America< you never.... This reads better. In other countries you could never rule it out either, but the chance is magnitudes smaller.

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#38

Post by damoncali »

icebraining wrote: post #13
gyardley wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you never know who's armed and who's not, in these cases they're probably just as worried about the destruction of evidence - a polite knock on the door and an 'excuse me, sir, we're the FBI' might give him time to erase or destroy something.

Is there no middle ground?

While I'm no cop and such actions are concerning to me - let me play devil's advocate. If you have to train a group of men to apprehend a wide variety of suspects/fugitives/badguys in a manner that is fast, effective, and as safe as possible, it makes sense that you keep the procedures, tactics, and equipment used consistent.

After all, pointing an M16 at someone wont hurt them any more than pointing a .38 special at them, but it's a hell of a lot less tempting to run/fight back against an overwhelming force.

That they seem heavy handed in this case is just a result of it being on the edge of the range they need to cover.

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#39

Post by icebraining »

damoncali wrote: post #38
icebraining wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there no middle ground?

While I'm no cop and such actions are concerning to me - let me play devil's advocate. If you have to train a group of men to apprehend a wide variety of suspects/fugitives/badguys in a manner that is fast, effective, and as safe as possible, it makes sense that you keep the procedures, tactics, and equipment used consistent. After all, pointing an M16 at someone wont hurt them any more than pointing a .38 special at…

All of that makes sense under the premise that the SWAT team should be used to apprehend an individual which is not know to be part of any criminal group nor has committed a violent act.

Re: Hacker Who Helped Expose Steubenville Could Get More Prison Time Than Rapists

#40

Post by pyre »

mpyne wrote: post #31
pyre wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

| While you never know who's armed and who's not This may be true, but if the person has no history of violence, isn't wanted for a violent offence, has no registered firearms, and is not known to have any radical anti-government / Michigan Militia-type views, then there is probably no reason for such an armed assault. | in these cases they're probably just as worried | about the destruction of evidence So a group of…

"Registered firearms" in a nation with the 2nd Amendment? Even in states that require it I wouldn't trust that info with my life. :) And either way I don't see why you'd not be OK with rifles but would be OK with handguns. Once you're OK with the arresting officers being armed the rest is just a matter of degree.

  | the rest is just a matter of degree.
Exactly. Sending a couple of armed officers vs. a SWAT team with snipers and helicopters. Let's not forget that the US taxpayers are footing the bill if every arrest involves a highly-trained 10-person team donning assault rifles, etc.
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