President Obama’s Dragnet • Hacker News Board

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#71

Post by jlgreco » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 1:48 AM UTC

jbm wrote: post #62

Shivetya wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which of the major issues that the Obama Administration has the major US media broken recently? None. We have had nearly five years of a silent, complacent, if not compliant, major news media in the US. Sadly we have to resort to foreign news sources to get to the story. Don't be surprised if Al-Jazeera breaks a story before one of ours does.

Your comment implies that Al-Jazeera is a poor source of news. Is there a reason you feel that way, other than their lack of reporting on Qatar? I find that they have excellent coverage of Africa, Asia, and most of the Middle East. (Sorry if that wasn't your intention)

Al Jazeera English is an excellent source of world news, but their focus really is not on the US, unlike most domestic news outlets. One would therefore normally suspect that they would be less likely to break major US news, but in reality I think most of us would expect the opposite.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#72

Post by jlgreco » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 1:54 AM UTC

rdouble wrote: post #52

cookingrobot wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true in practice. You always need to file taxes to the US no matter where you live, but you only pay to the US if you paid less overseas (you pay the difference, you don't double pay). Almost any county you'd want to live in (except tax havens) will have higher taxes than the US.

You have to file taxes for 5-10 years even if you renounce your citizenship.

How the hell does that work? How do they claim to have authority over you once you are no longer a citizen?

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#73

Post by rdouble » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 2:04 AM UTC

jlgreco wrote: post #72

rdouble wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to file taxes for 5-10 years even if you renounce your citizenship.

How the hell does that work? How do they claim to have authority over you once you are no longer a citizen?

I can't find where I thought read that, so I'm probably wrong.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#74

Post by tsotha » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 2:37 AM UTC

jpdoctor wrote: post #42

tsotha wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New data? Do you really think this is news to Obama?

> Do you really think this is news to Obama? Do you really think the NYT headline was known to Obama? So yes: The reaction of the populace is news. Again: Some people change course when presented with new data. While politicians and partisans rarely fall into that camp, I'm hopeful that Obama does.

So the "new data" you're talking about is the fact that he got caught? Maybe the change he'll make as a result is more secrecy instead of less of this kind of program.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#75

Post by mahyarm » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 3:07 AM UTC

jlgreco wrote: post #72

rdouble wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to file taxes for 5-10 years even if you renounce your citizenship.

How the hell does that work? How do they claim to have authority over you once you are no longer a citizen?

Authority is the ability to execute on that authority and the USA has plenty of execution ability.

In practice, it's how extradition works for non-citizens who never set foot inside the USA, or bank account freezes for people who don't live in the USA.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#76

Post by tjmc » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 3:24 AM UTC

abduhl wrote: post #29

sneak wrote: post #16

Keep paying US taxes and voting. That should work. (But seriously. It's time. Pack your belongings and leave. Vote with your tax dollars, please.)

I enjoy these type of comments. They mostly come from Americans who have never looked into the requirements to "leave" legally. It turns out the rest of the world has immigration laws that are just as strict or more strict than America's so unless you're young and you're filthy rich, in a very specialized field that country needs, or ridiculously good looking you're probably not welcome in country X.

Harper's magazine gave a detailed and amusing guide on "Electing to Leave" the US after Bush's reelection. It covers everything from emigrating to Canada to founding your own micronation.

I finally found a copy here: http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1103-29.htm

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#77

Post by josephagoss » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 3:50 AM UTC

hippich wrote: post #22

sneak wrote: post #16

Keep paying US taxes and voting. That should work. (But seriously. It's time. Pack your belongings and leave. Vote with your tax dollars, please.)

Any suggestions, where to go?

Come over to Australia!

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#78

Post by plusbryan » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 4:06 AM UTC

mtoddh wrote: post #25

From the article: "The defense of this practice offered by Senator Dianne Feinstein of California, who as chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee is supposed to be preventing this sort of overreaching, was absurd. She said today that the authorities need this information in case someone might become a terrorist in the future." That second sentence is the one that really caught my eye: She said today that the au…

Also convenient when we change our definition of "terrorist" and can reexamine the evidence with new eyes...

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#79

Post by cglace » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 4:10 AM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #59

wslh wrote: post #28

I really think of Obama government as populism (disclaimer: I live in another country with a lot of populism). The IRS scandal is part of that. He plays nice cards in public but in secret he has another agenda. At one point you connect the dots when he plays the same tricks.

From what I've seen, Obama is pretty peeved about the IRS thing. Mainly because it spent a lot of political capital he needed for other projects... like this one.

Pretty peeved they were caught?

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#80

Post by te_chris » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 4:24 AM UTC

vijayboyapati wrote: post #23

Question: At what point does the average statist admit that the libertarians (s)he has been belittling for so many years as tin-foil hat crackpots were far more savvy about the nature of the state than they were? Answer: never

Yes, never, because a completely unaccountable corporatocracy is not a suitable replacement. Social democrats like myself believe in the power of a transparent, strong, supportive, accountable and fundamentally democratic state and are not going to give up fighting for it.

This isn't an argument to blow up the state in favour of an alternative which has proven itself often to be worse than the state in matters of privacy and libterty, it's a call to increase the public pressure for reform.