Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics • Hacker News Board

Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#61

Post by spingu » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 2:55 AM UTC

sjtgraham wrote: post #46

anonyfuss wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't make it right. It's also astonishingly user-hostile; wasting the user's resources (bandwidth, battery life, cpu) on things they don't care about, without their permission. On top of that, doing anything economical with the analytics is very rare. It's very difficult to isolate meaningful variables, and you're almost always better off spending that money paying a designer to tackle issues and features that rea…

I'm interested how this is user hostile? What is the purpose of collecting such data? I think it's to improve whatever is being measured, to make it more useful. I don't call that hostile.

I thought I was the only one. I too think (in general) companies collect data to improve user experience. Although I am sure there are companies that misuse it (selling user data), but I would think most companies genuinely want to collect data to improve their product. Why do I believe this? Because I myself am a founder want this data for exact reason. It makes no sense to me to user that data in any other way. Why else woud I want it?

I am that "crazy" individual that actually answers YES to share usage data (as long as I feel it's reputable company or reputable management team). I do this because I don't want to be a hypocrite. I have yet to suffer any consequences of answering YES to most. Although I realize that my experience alone of opting in to sharing usage data has been fine, it doesn't mean much. I just hate when people cry loudly without any solid data of misuse.

My two cents...

Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#62

Post by sjtgraham » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 3:19 AM UTC

anonyfuss wrote: post #60

sjtgraham wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are so incredibly misinformed. An address book cannot simply be mined. Those are extended permissions and access requires explicit opt in from the user at the OS level before the OS exposes any of that information. Furthermore, do you have any data on how much battery, or bandwidth heap uses? No? Ok, please spare the FUD. This is clearly about allowing developers to see how their users use their apps so they can…

> You are so incredibly misinformed. An address book cannot simply be mined. Those are extended permissions and access requires explicit opt in from the user at the OS level before the OS exposes any of that information. It used to be possible without requiring opt-in. What I've seen in some applications has been piggy-backing permissions -- that is, wait until you have a legitimate reason to request access to the us…

Please don't slight me by implicitly putting me in the class of "sleazy people" whom send "spam". It's been nice discussing this with you, but since you're resorting to ad hominem I'll wish you well and bow out of this discussion. Thanks.

Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#63

Post by zaptheimpaler » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 3:26 AM UTC

socillion wrote: post #54

sjtgraham wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not using an app is an easy opt out for people.

That assumes the customers know about it, and I think you're giving companies too much credit to assume they will disclose it.

Not a lot of customers know to disable JS either.

Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#64

Post by matm » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 5:23 AM UTC

DenisM wrote: post #38

matm wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can try out the analysis part with some sample (web-only) data at: https://heapanalytics.com/dashboard/demo We let you define events after-the-fact based on the gesture type and the corresponding target variable. Once that event is defined, you can include it in funnels, view it in user-specific activity streams, slice n' dice it, etc.

How do you define user's "join date"? Is it the first time you saw the user? For that matter, how do you identify the user? If the user logged in from two different machines, does it count as one user or two?

Yes, first time we saw the user.

It counts as two, since by default we identify users with first-party cookies. We offer a heap.identify() API call that can be made to associate multiple devices with one identity.

Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#65

Post by matm » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 5:23 AM UTC

DenisM wrote: post #33

matm wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can try out the analysis part with some sample (web-only) data at: https://heapanalytics.com/dashboard/demo We let you define events after-the-fact based on the gesture type and the corresponding target variable. Once that event is defined, you can include it in funnels, view it in user-specific activity streams, slice n' dice it, etc.

Thanks for the demo link, that clears things up a bit. FYI, I don't think you're using the work "cohort" correctly in the video. Cohorts are stable groups, composed of the same people over time. "Users who send 5 links" is not a cohort, as the group's composition changes over time.

Huh, interesting! Will keep that in mind.

Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#66

Post by matm » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 5:39 AM UTC

DenisM wrote: post #40

So here's my quick feedback to the team. Pros: - Pricing is fine with me - I'm doing a paid SaaS app with relatively high per-user revenue. You will likely price out most of other devs, however. - I like the retroactive analysis. The idea of grab everything and let god sort it out speaks to me. - I like doing both device and web analytics in one place. I don't think doing one or the other makes sense anymore. Cons: -…

Great, thanks for the thorough feedback!

Re: your first con. We offer a heap.identify() API call that associates activity with one canonical identity. For instance, if a user logs in on a new separate device, you can call heap.identify({handle: 'DenisM'}) to associate all activity on that device with the existing user DenisM.

We hope you reconsider and give us a go. We're always down to talk more in person and better understand your use cases. Just ping us at team@heapanalytics.com.

Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#67

Post by huhtenberg » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 6:11 AM UTC

DeusExMachina wrote: post #35

eps wrote: post #25

Fucking hell. This is exceptionally disturbing. This sort of service needs to be legally regulated now . The app devs must be required to warn in large block letters that evryhting you do in the app, even while offline, is streamed to some random company. You can argue all you want that "everyone's doing it", but it doesn't make this any less unacceptable and going against basic expectations of privacy.

Aside from using some user resource (like battery or network) how is this different from what website have been doing for a long time? There are tools to even track the mouse movement of the user. Which is not the "everyone is doing it argument", but more "why does this need legal regulation now?". Why not before on web apps? The privacy implications look the same to me, but the point does not seem to be raised in th…

Because website is a service and an installable app is a product.

You expect a coffee shop's camera to track you, but you sure as hell don't expect your moka pot do that. Moreover, if it were doing that, you would've not bought it in the first place.

Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#68

Post by irrationalidiom » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 1:50 PM UTC

sjtgraham wrote: post #51

irrationalidiom wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think this is an invasion of privacy at all. I vehemently disagree. Most companies will just hide the fact they are collecting (and often selling) user data within slimy legalese. Consumer protection includes niceties such as warranties, and protection against false advertising, and clear display of nutritional information and safety warnings. Privacy also deserves the same treatment so users can make an in…

- "Most companies" sell user data? "Slimy?" Incredible bias here. Wouldn't be so bad if you provided some evidence to support up your position. - ToS of don't have to be "hefty", they can be written in plain English. Try using facts instead of loaded, emotional language to support your argument next time.

I didn't mean to say most companies sell user data, but rather of the companies that sell user data, most are not straight forward about it.

Example: Onavo, Dolphin Browser, Opera Mini, Ask Toolbar

What I am emphasising is that while they could ask plainly, and state they are collecting your data, and then selling it to 3rd parties (even if in aggregate), they do not.

I would want users to be given a clear choice about what is happening with their data, and some companies have the integrity to do this.