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Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

blog.heapanalytics.com

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Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#41

Post by anonyfuss »

DenisM wrote: post #36
eps wrote: post #25

Fucking hell. This is exceptionally disturbing. This sort of service needs to be legally regulated now . The app devs must be required to warn in large block letters that evryhting you do in the app, even while offline, is streamed to some random company. You can argue all you want that "everyone's doing it", but it doesn't make this any less unacceptable and going against basic expectations of privacy.

I think you're overreacting. Privacy policy disclosure is obviously in order, but that's about all there is to it.

When is the last time you read a privacy policy disclosure?

A reasonable person would assume that if an application has no functionality that requires sending data over the network, the application won't surreptitiously spy on you and send your data over the network.

Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#42

Post by nemothekid »

anonyfuss wrote: post #30
jazzychad wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but most every major app (and every single game app) is already doing this by sending activity data to one company or another.

Doesn't make it right. It's also astonishingly user-hostile; wasting the user's resources (bandwidth, battery life, cpu) on things they don't care about, without their permission. On top of that, doing anything economical with the analytics is very rare. It's very difficult to isolate meaningful variables, and you're almost always better off spending that money paying a designer to tackle issues and features that rea…

>doing anything economical with the analytics is very rare.

That is a very bold claim and I'm interested if you have any sources to back it up. I'm hard pressed to believe that all of Facebook's design decisions hinge on whatever side of the bed Zuckerberg woke up on.

Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#43

Post by socillion »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #35
eps wrote: post #25

Fucking hell. This is exceptionally disturbing. This sort of service needs to be legally regulated now . The app devs must be required to warn in large block letters that evryhting you do in the app, even while offline, is streamed to some random company. You can argue all you want that "everyone's doing it", but it doesn't make this any less unacceptable and going against basic expectations of privacy.

Aside from using some user resource (like battery or network) how is this different from what website have been doing for a long time? There are tools to even track the mouse movement of the user. Which is not the "everyone is doing it argument", but more "why does this need legal regulation now?". Why not before on web apps? The privacy implications look the same to me, but the point does not seem to be raised in th…

Disabling Javascript is an easy opt out for websites.

This service is designed to produce user specific data. judging from what they record on websites (see docs, tldr everything) I'd be surprised if the iPhone version doesn't record GPS locations or what other apps you use.

I'm also not sure how commonly websites record data in this detail that also maps to specific users, but if it's common on websites its definitely news to me - and all the more reason to use stuff like Ghostery/Disconnect/Noscript. Do these have iPhone equivalents yet?

Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#44

Post by interpol_p »

jazzychad wrote: post #29
eps wrote: post #25

Fucking hell. This is exceptionally disturbing. This sort of service needs to be legally regulated now . The app devs must be required to warn in large block letters that evryhting you do in the app, even while offline, is streamed to some random company. You can argue all you want that "everyone's doing it", but it doesn't make this any less unacceptable and going against basic expectations of privacy.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but most every major app (and every single game app) is already doing this by sending activity data to one company or another.

We don't do it in our apps or games. And I know quite a few developers who make analytics opt-in via settings (as well those who provide an opt-out). Big brand games probably do it, though.

Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#45

Post by sjtgraham »

socillion wrote: post #43
DeusExMachina wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from using some user resource (like battery or network) how is this different from what website have been doing for a long time? There are tools to even track the mouse movement of the user. Which is not the "everyone is doing it argument", but more "why does this need legal regulation now?". Why not before on web apps? The privacy implications look the same to me, but the point does not seem to be raised in th…

Disabling Javascript is an easy opt out for websites. This service is designed to produce user specific data. judging from what they record on websites (see docs, tldr everything) I'd be surprised if the iPhone version doesn't record GPS locations or what other apps you use. I'm also not sure how commonly websites record data in this detail that also maps to specific users, but if it's common on websites its definite…

Not using an app is an easy opt out for people.

Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#46

Post by sjtgraham »

anonyfuss wrote: post #30
jazzychad wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but most every major app (and every single game app) is already doing this by sending activity data to one company or another.

Doesn't make it right. It's also astonishingly user-hostile; wasting the user's resources (bandwidth, battery life, cpu) on things they don't care about, without their permission. On top of that, doing anything economical with the analytics is very rare. It's very difficult to isolate meaningful variables, and you're almost always better off spending that money paying a designer to tackle issues and features that rea…

I'm interested how this is user hostile? What is the purpose of collecting such data? I think it's to improve whatever is being measured, to make it more useful. I don't call that hostile.

Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#47

Post by sjtgraham »

eps wrote: post #25

Fucking hell. This is exceptionally disturbing. This sort of service needs to be legally regulated now . The app devs must be required to warn in large block letters that evryhting you do in the app, even while offline, is streamed to some random company. You can argue all you want that "everyone's doing it", but it doesn't make this any less unacceptable and going against basic expectations of privacy.

I don't think this is an invasion of privacy at all. Heap hooks into single apps, it's not like it hooks into the OS to monitor user interaction with everything a user does in every app. I would sympathise with your reaction if this was the case.

I think it's perfectly good enough for a vendor to declare what data they are collecting in their ToS e.g. "we collect information on how you use the app" and why, e.g. "to consider for future versions so that we release the best possible, most useful software for our users". It's absurd to mandate that this be communicated in "large block letters" as this makes it into a bigger deal than it is.

Let's take off the tin foil hats and be pragmatic. I fully expect analytics to collected on everything I use and I understand the motivation behind it too, i.e. it's to improve whatever it is I am using to make it more useful, and therefore valuable to me.

Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#48

Post by anonyfuss »

sjtgraham wrote: post #46
anonyfuss wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't make it right. It's also astonishingly user-hostile; wasting the user's resources (bandwidth, battery life, cpu) on things they don't care about, without their permission. On top of that, doing anything economical with the analytics is very rare. It's very difficult to isolate meaningful variables, and you're almost always better off spending that money paying a designer to tackle issues and features that rea…

I'm interested how this is user hostile? What is the purpose of collecting such data? I think it's to improve whatever is being measured, to make it more useful. I don't call that hostile.

Then ask the user first. I'm sure that if you can elucidate the value of tracking their every interaction, they'll be happy to agree.

I'll say no, because don't want my battery wasted, my bandwidth consume, my IP logged, my address book mined, etc, just because a PM can't decode where to spend development and design dollars without fudging almost uselessly ambiguous numbers.

Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#49

Post by [deleted] »

sjtgraham wrote: post #47
eps wrote: post #25

Fucking hell. This is exceptionally disturbing. This sort of service needs to be legally regulated now . The app devs must be required to warn in large block letters that evryhting you do in the app, even while offline, is streamed to some random company. You can argue all you want that "everyone's doing it", but it doesn't make this any less unacceptable and going against basic expectations of privacy.

I don't think this is an invasion of privacy at all. Heap hooks into single apps, it's not like it hooks into the OS to monitor user interaction with everything a user does in every app. I would sympathise with your reaction if this was the case. I think it's perfectly good enough for a vendor to declare what data they are collecting in their ToS e.g. "we collect information on how you use the app" and why, e.g. "to…

[deleted]

Re: Heap for iOS: the capture-everything approach to mobile analytics

#50

Post by irrationalidiom »

sjtgraham wrote: post #47
eps wrote: post #25

Fucking hell. This is exceptionally disturbing. This sort of service needs to be legally regulated now . The app devs must be required to warn in large block letters that evryhting you do in the app, even while offline, is streamed to some random company. You can argue all you want that "everyone's doing it", but it doesn't make this any less unacceptable and going against basic expectations of privacy.

I don't think this is an invasion of privacy at all. Heap hooks into single apps, it's not like it hooks into the OS to monitor user interaction with everything a user does in every app. I would sympathise with your reaction if this was the case. I think it's perfectly good enough for a vendor to declare what data they are collecting in their ToS e.g. "we collect information on how you use the app" and why, e.g. "to…

> I don't think this is an invasion of privacy at all.

I vehemently disagree. Most companies will just hide the fact they are collecting (and often selling) user data within slimy legalese.

Consumer protection includes niceties such as warranties, and protection against false advertising, and clear display of nutritional information and safety warnings.

Privacy also deserves the same treatment so users can make an informed decision, without having to wade through a hefty licence agreement.

Edit: updated reply context

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