Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

motherjones.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 255 posts

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#141

Post by arjn »

maeon3 wrote: post #54
InclinedPlane wrote: post #44

People often ask the hypothetical of what sorts of behavior we consider normal today that people in the far future will regard as barbaric or bizarre. Our prison system is probably near the top of that list, for a variety of reasons. Not least of which is the sheer size of the prison population these days due to the war on drugs. Even more significant is the widespread societal belief that prison experience should be…

If the prisons were focused on fixing the root problem in the criminals, as if they were some sort of refuge for edification, conditioning and correction then a large body of the homeless would commit a strategic crime in order to get there so they can at least get three meals and an opportunity to move up in the world from rock-bottom. Like slavery in the 18th century, prisons are a necessary evil to punish people w…

>> "Like slavery in the 18th century"

This person is clearly a troll. Ignore. [Edit: or is this a joke that I didn't get ?]

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#142

Post by grecy »

rdl wrote: post #136
grecy wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the longest time you've actually gone in your life without seeing another human? I've done 10-12 days a few times, and routinely do ~5 days. You need to experience it for yourself before you make such bold claims. It's a very intense experience.

9-10 days without Internet a couple times. A week or so at a time with internet, routinely, most of the time for a few years. 6 months where the only person was seen about as much as a prison guard at pelican bay would be, and another year which was quite close to that, and where I effectively couldn't leave. I agree it's intense, but not exclusively bad. And I'm pretty sure I'd prefer it by far to being in prison wi…

Let me re-phrase that.

What's the longest time you've ever gone without seeing or talking to another human where you can't easily do so? i.e. you can just walk outside and see one, or pickup the phone, or chat on internet.

I do remote hiking trips where it would take me 5 days to see another person even if I wanted to.

Remove yourself from the world, completely.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#143

Post by rdl »

grecy wrote: post #142
rdl wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

9-10 days without Internet a couple times. A week or so at a time with internet, routinely, most of the time for a few years. 6 months where the only person was seen about as much as a prison guard at pelican bay would be, and another year which was quite close to that, and where I effectively couldn't leave. I agree it's intense, but not exclusively bad. And I'm pretty sure I'd prefer it by far to being in prison wi…

Let me re-phrase that. What's the longest time you've ever gone without seeing or talking to another human where you can't easily do so? i.e. you can just walk outside and see one, or pickup the phone, or chat on internet. I do remote hiking trips where it would take me 5 days to see another person even if I wanted to. Remove yourself from the world, completely.

Right, 9-10 day backcountry trips which I've done a couple times (although not in the past 8 years). Although probably within 1-2 days of people the whole time. And, I'd certainly take a satphone with me, at least emergency beacon, if I did it today (yay, technology).

(This also becomes a philosophical/psychological question: is it more holy to resist sin when surrounded by temptation, or when in a pure environment? Is it harder to avoid talking to people if you know you just have to pick up a phone to do so, or when it's a serious production?)

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#144

Post by bdunbar »

AFrench wrote: post #91
InclinedPlane wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visibility for one. The French prison system is horrible, the British prison system is also pretty bad. Beyond that I'd have to blame the war on drugs and general societal attitudes. The general attitude seems to be that once you have been adjudicated a "bad guy" and are put into the prison population anything that happens to you is fair game.

The French prison system is severely underfunded leading to very poor living conditions, but there is none of this attitude that it's OK for people to be raped if they're criminals. The statistics for rape in US prisons are absolutely appalling; I have never seen such data for French prisons, but I would guess, or at least hope, that it is much less common.

> none of this attitude

This is not an actual prevailing attitude in the US.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#145

Post by rdl »

moxie wrote: post #140

Many of the structures that make up our society (jails, taxes, laws, rulers) were not "our" creation, but the creation of kings. When those kings were deposed, rather than abolishing the structures those kings had created, they were instead largely preserved and put under "democratic" control. It could be that this was a mistake: that there's something structurally intrinsic to the instruments of monarchies that can…

What are structures that make up our society that were not creations of kings? (i.e. things created in the last hundred or two years, under democracy). Are these any less difficult to change?

Fiat-money Central Banks mostly were created under democracies, and seem quite resistant to change. Social-welfare programs. Anything related to lobbying.

I think the razor points to "institutions are highly resistant to change", not anything specific to monarchy vs. democracy.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#146

Post by betterunix »

_account wrote: post #92
w_t_payne wrote: post #75

The nature of America's prison system is driven by the fact that middle class white people vote for politicians and policies that put poor black people through a cruel, inhumane and all-too-usual system of torture and deprivation. Is unusual sadism a national characteristic? I do not want to think so, but the evidence suggests otherwise.

I didn't know that the laws so clearly stated that black people are singled out to be tortured. Can you provide at least one reference to this atrocity? [I'm guessing you can't]

Were every violation of the law punished with a prison sentence, you would not see disproportionate numbers of black people in prison. The problem is that the law is not uniformly enforced, but it is so broad that eventually any normal person will have broken it.

When the police presence is higher in black neighborhoods, you are going to see more arrests. When the law is so broad that anyone can be arrested, the effect will be magnified. Eventually you get to the situation we are in today, where in some black communities one in four black men has been to prison. This is not merely a measurement error or some kind of mistake; our approach to law and law enforcement right now is disproportionately affecting black people, especially black men.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#148

Post by gknoy »

freehunter wrote: post #77
king_jester wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prison has to be scary. It has to strike one as the number one place that you do not want to go. It's the other ultimate consequence, along side of death. I can't imagine this world if it wasn't. Prison is not a deterrent. If it was, you would see prison population decline over time. Instead, it has grown quite significantly and in a racist way (black men are massively overrepresented and sent to prison).

Just because prison population is rising does not mean that people are choosing to go to prison. The criminal justice system is choosing to send more and more people to prison for offenses that would not have incurred prison time in the past.

More importantly, the people that do the Very Bad Things that we want prison to deter often do not think enough about their actions to consider the possible consequences, and also don't really think that it could happen to them.

When people don't even think consequences will ever apply to them, how can the consequence act as a deterrent?

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#149

Post by gknoy »

mcherm wrote: post #105
scrapcode wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kind of glad that this is your perception. This should be everyone's perception of prison. You should have an extreme necessity to keep your ass out of prison. You should be scared absolutely shitless of prison, so much that you play exactly by the rules to keep yourself from ever going there. Our prison system does a pretty good job at driving this perception home. Prison is not a rehabilitation center. If it we…

> I know plenty of unmotivated individuals that would love to sit around with a bunch of other lazy-asses and be fed 3 meals a day. For free. Don't you? No. I know absolutely no people who would choose to be put in prison simply because they would be fed. I cannot imagine a wealthy society (and make no bones about it, our society is wealthy enough that people can be fed) which would permit that. > It has to strike on…

I've read (though I cannot find a link) of a homeless (or sick?) person who commited crimes because he felt prison's shelter + food was better than freezing/starving on the street. Reading the account, it was hard to consider than an irrational decision.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#150

Post by Domenic_S »

honzzz wrote: post #133
Myrmornis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, all nations think they are special. It's not an excuse for backwardness.

OT: I remember being in the USA after those 9/11 terrorist attacks an they aired those "proud to be an American" commercials all the time... like they assume it's a good thing to be proud that you are a national of a certain nation. And maybe it is a good thing - I don't know. It just seemed strange to me. And all those American flags in front of regular family homes... do you still have those? You don't see that in…

If it weren't for some sense of pride, things would never be fixed. Think about your technology work -- you do a good job because you take some pride in it.

American patriotism is the most public, but every country's citizens take some measure of pride in their country. We're the most public about everything (the home of myspace/facebook/twitter/instagram/the internet generally) so it makes sense to me that we're really public about patriotism.

Post reply on HN