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Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

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Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#11

Post by ZirconCode »

gruseom wrote: post #2

Solitary confinement is now so obviously a form of torture that it's surprising this is still controversial. Future generations will surely look on it the way we look on past barbarities.

The problem is that psychological forms of harm are not treated with as much respect as physical forms. There are no pictures of it, you cannot see it. It is the same reason why people struggle to see a psychiatrist but not a doctor.

Lack of sleep is also deployed in some countries ie. the guards won't let you sleep.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#12

Post by Myrmornis »

peteretep wrote: post #6
Myrmornis wrote: post #4

Too depressing to read in its entirety. One straightforward way of evaluating whether there might be anything wrong with practices in American prisons is to compare with other countries -- do other nations with stable democracies use solitary confinement in a similar way?

> do other nations with stable democracies use solitary confinement in a similar way Other countries with stable democracies have universal health care, don't incarcerate almost 1% of the population, have never landed people on the moon, don't spend 5% of their GDP on the military, aren't the home of Apple, Microsoft, and IBM, and so on. America has always been (and will probably always be) an edge case.

Actually, all nations think they are special. It's not an excuse for backwardness.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#13

Post by philwelch »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #10

A very sad read and the comments are even worse. This sort of thing so clearly crosses the line in to inhumanity. I appreciate that some/many of these inmates have committed awful crimes but it seems that this particular system offers no opportunity for rehabilitation and is focussed solely on punishment. I forget where I read it but I believe that there is a correlation between the severity of the punishment and it'…

It's not about rehabilitation or punishment. It's far more cynical than that. It's simply a matter of separating people from the population. Prisoners are separated from the free population; especially dangerous prisoners are separated even from the prison population.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#15

Post by jacquesm »

Myrmornis wrote: post #12
peteretep wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> do other nations with stable democracies use solitary confinement in a similar way Other countries with stable democracies have universal health care, don't incarcerate almost 1% of the population, have never landed people on the moon, don't spend 5% of their GDP on the military, aren't the home of Apple, Microsoft, and IBM, and so on. America has always been (and will probably always be) an edge case.

Actually, all nations think they are special. It's not an excuse for backwardness.

> Actually, all nations think they are special.

Actually, they don't.

And that's another way in which America is different than most other nations.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#17

Post by psionski »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #10

A very sad read and the comments are even worse. This sort of thing so clearly crosses the line in to inhumanity. I appreciate that some/many of these inmates have committed awful crimes but it seems that this particular system offers no opportunity for rehabilitation and is focussed solely on punishment. I forget where I read it but I believe that there is a correlation between the severity of the punishment and it'…

This is not punishment, this is revenge. Punishment is a corrective action, this breaks them even more. By the way, this is extremely dangerous - to paraphrase Nietzsche: in solitude, whatever you bring with you grows. Do we really want whatever they're bringing to grow?

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#18

Post by kybernetyk »

Myrmornis wrote: post #4

Too depressing to read in its entirety. One straightforward way of evaluating whether there might be anything wrong with practices in American prisons is to compare with other countries -- do other nations with stable democracies use solitary confinement in a similar way?

A different view: In Germany you are usually locked up for 23 hours/day in your (1 or 2 man) cell when you're serving a prison sentence.

There are some exceptions to this like being able to visit another prisoner for one hour every day or use the kitchen for one hour every few days, etc. (Or if you are really lucky you can get a job inside the prison.)

I'd say being imprisoned is inhumane in every country on this planet. I hope future generations come up with alternatives to this medieval practice.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#19

Post by ippisl »

philwelch wrote: post #13
simonbarker87 wrote: post #10

A very sad read and the comments are even worse. This sort of thing so clearly crosses the line in to inhumanity. I appreciate that some/many of these inmates have committed awful crimes but it seems that this particular system offers no opportunity for rehabilitation and is focussed solely on punishment. I forget where I read it but I believe that there is a correlation between the severity of the punishment and it'…

It's not about rehabilitation or punishment. It's far more cynical than that. It's simply a matter of separating people from the population. Prisoners are separated from the free population; especially dangerous prisoners are separated even from the prison population.

It's pretty easy to physically separate people but still let them communicate with others. It looks like revenge.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#20

Post by nraynaud »

ZirconCode wrote: post #11
gruseom wrote: post #2

Solitary confinement is now so obviously a form of torture that it's surprising this is still controversial. Future generations will surely look on it the way we look on past barbarities.

The problem is that psychological forms of harm are not treated with as much respect as physical forms. There are no pictures of it, you cannot see it. It is the same reason why people struggle to see a psychiatrist but not a doctor. Lack of sleep is also deployed in some countries ie. the guards won't let you sleep.

The real problem is that the US is part of no international treaty on human rights. Turkey and France have a way more fair process now thanks to the European Court of Human Rights. They have also put hard limits on terrorist law etc. It's slow but it's a real adult supervising the local politicians with true values.
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