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NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

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Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#161

Post by dev_jim »

durango wrote: post #151
dev_jim wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. AirBnB is the ultimate John Galt system in NYC. Apartment renters get cash for their apartment (that they usually don't even own) and then everyone else in the building gets to deals with the fallout of a revolving set of neighbors who share the lobby, amenities, hallways, and walls. Good riddance.

When you forced to pay $300/night in Manhattan at the W hotel, Atlas Shrugged. Not a AR fan btw, just saying both sides of the fence have their pros and cons. I'd place higher value on an apartment complex that explicitly did not allow short-term renting within their contract. The other problem is... what's the difference between me using AirBNB and me knowing a friend who let me stayed at his place for 6 days and I…

> When you forced to pay $300/night in Manhattan at the W hotel, Atlas Shrugged.

No one is "forcing" you to spend $300/night in Manhattan for a hotel. You should read that book again because you are also not using "Atlas Shrugged" in a meaningful context.

> Not a AR fan btw, just saying both sides of the fence have their pros and cons. I'd place higher value on an apartment complex that explicitly did not allow short-term renting within their contract.

Laws and regulations around housing are put in place to protect all residents, the landlord, the community, regardless of what Joe the landlord remembered or didn't remember to put into his stock lease.

> The other problem is... what's the difference between me using AirBNB and me knowing a friend who let me stayed at his place for 6 days and I just happened to give him some money as a thank you gift?

And what's the difference between cooking for friends who give you money for groceries and opening a restaurant in your apartment? You can always make an argument that appeals to the extreme in making your case, but thankfully that doesn't make it a legally relevant argument.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#162

Post by jbooth »

yebyen wrote: post #155
jbooth wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, those are federal issues, so it sounds like his problem is the fact that Obama's president rather than anything to do with new york state. I'd also hypothesize that he was much less upset about these issues in December 2008 than he became starting in late January 2009.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/2012-state-business-tax-cli... There's NY, ranked right behind NJ as #49 for second least favorable state business tax climate. That's right. Worse than California for business owners. I have no idea of the legitimacy of this graph, it only took 10 seconds of Googling to find it. Not saying anything about Upstate vs The City, but my dad has lived in NY for near to his whole life, he's…

Yes, conservative think tanks will always put NYC/Cali as the least favorable business climate. But where's the business? Here. Cali.

I live in NJ, I work in NY, so I got 49 and 50 going strong here. I can tell you, and you'll have to just trust me on this, business is better here than in Alabama or Arkansas which have much better 'business climates'.

You received higher tax returns than what you paid because of the earned income tax credit, a socialist wealth redistribution scheme to benefit low-income workers that would never pass if today's political conservatives had to vote on it. Your dad and I both helped pay for it.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#163

Post by invisible »

seren wrote: post #65
nawitus wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd have to dig up the article but I've read about shady landlords evicting residents and turning entire apartment buildings into Airbnb hotels. Why shouldn't landlords have the right to turn their buildings into Airbnbn hotels? (Assuming that the landlord pays taxes as usual, and the evicted residents were evicted under the rental agreement).

I assume that hotels have to comply to additional regulations (safety, hygiene, etc) and taxes. In this context, an AirBnB hotel would be a de facto hotels, without all the legal constraints. So this is not fair, to your competitors.

So it is OK for people to live there (health-wise) but not OK for people to stay there temporarily? I mean, if there are 200 people in a building and it burns down does it really matter if they were there temporarily or permanently? Bizarre.

The only way justification I could see is that if it were not hygienic, there is a chance of a outbreak of a virus happening (but that is no different than the metro or a flea market).

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#165

Post by dragonwriter »

dev_jim wrote: post #161
durango wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you forced to pay $300/night in Manhattan at the W hotel, Atlas Shrugged. Not a AR fan btw, just saying both sides of the fence have their pros and cons. I'd place higher value on an apartment complex that explicitly did not allow short-term renting within their contract. The other problem is... what's the difference between me using AirBNB and me knowing a friend who let me stayed at his place for 6 days and I…

> When you forced to pay $300/night in Manhattan at the W hotel, Atlas Shrugged. No one is "forcing" you to spend $300/night in Manhattan for a hotel. You should read that book again because you are also not using "Atlas Shrugged" in a meaningful context. > Not a AR fan btw, just saying both sides of the fence have their pros and cons. I'd place higher value on an apartment complex that explicitly did not allow short…

> what's the difference between me using AirBNB and me knowing a friend who let me stayed at his place for 6 days and I just happened to give him some money as a thank you gift?

Its the difference between an informal, non-contracted exchange of gifts between parties known to each other with an established relationship on the one hand, and a contractual, arms-length agreement between strangers through a third-party intermediary with arms-length contractual relationships with both parties on the other.

As a general rule, in most domains, the latter tends to be subject to greater regulation than the former, both because, as an arms-length agreement, there is greater need for protection from abuse and, as a contractual agreement, it necessarily invokes the threat of state action.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#166

Post by [deleted] »

greghinch wrote: post #144
brown9-2 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Uber harm the community?

Seriously. Just the other night I had an Uber ride from a guy, he had previously spent years working as a single taxi operator. Within the past year on Uber, he's been able to expand out on his own, and now owns 6 additional cars which he leases to other Uber drivers. He's also training all of them on how to do the same thing, and one of them is soon going to likely strike out on his own with 2 cars to start. These a…

[deleted]

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#167

Post by maxerickson »

rayiner wrote: post #129
sliverstorm wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, AirBnB basically seems to be an exercise in converting externalities into profit.

Much of what we consider to be profitable, high-growth business is about taking advantage of market failures. E.g. the advertising industry that bankrolls the internet is basically about taking advantage of cognitive biases to get people to make irrational purchasing decisions. Part of the success of e-commerce is due to the heroic efforts of UPS, etc, in reducing the cost of shipping over the years to make e-tailing…

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-success-story-of-chobani-...

But maybe that is the exception that proves the rule. Or maybe you didn't mean dairy products.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#168

Post by stephencanon »

tomkarlo wrote: post #83
davidw wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term that's involved in this is "externality": costs that are imposed on people not involved in the actual transaction (use of the place for payment). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality You rightly point out, that, for instance, in a crowded apartment building, having something like a dynamite storage facility would probably be a bad idea. However, other things might be annoying too, such as having children…

At some point, the cost of adjusting for the externalities will erase the savings of AirBnB. Which would indicate that the much of the "benefit" of AirBnB simply comes from not paying for the externalities. Beyond the neighbors, there would also need to be city taxes to pay for the regulation and oversight of the rental (and fire inspections, etc), and the use of city services by visitors (who probably don't pay inco…

I recently stayed for a few days in an AirBnB room while my wife and I were in New York. A comparably nice hotel room in the same neighborhood would have run us a minimum of $350 a night; the AirBnB room was $110. While I certainly believe that some of the "benefit" of AirBnB comes from not paying for externalities, it stretches logic to believe that those externalities account for $240 a day for two people in one room.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#169

Post by saraid216 »

nsxwolf wrote: post #124
nsxwolf wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe a share of the payment, and a more direct relationship with the security deposit. I was really trying to think of ways it affects me as a landlord and property owner. I really don't care what people do in the property as long as it's legal and causes no damage, but I want to be protected and considered as well. Right now we are just completely cut out of the entire process, and there's little incentive for u…

Responding to w1ntermute below: You're right, and that's what I had toyed with looking into. The problem is I use a boilerplate lease like most landlords - because it's been tested for years in "production" if you will. You take a great risk in making even small modifications to existing language without a lawyer review. Writing all new language is even riskier and considerably more expensive. Since I don't want to s…

Offer the renter a split in lawyer fees?

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#170

Post by chrisbaus »

cletus wrote: post #62

I've had this argument with several people. Their position is that "it's my house/apartment, I should be able to do what I want with it" (even when renting they use this argument). My argument is that this is not and has never been true. You can't, for example, run a tannery in your apartment. What's more, as a resident (and especially if I were an owner) I wouldn't want my building being a de facto hotel. An endless…

In my opinion, this should be left to the owners of the specific building and not a city wide restriction. I own a property in Florida and the HOA restricts rentals less than a month. It isn't necessary for the municipality to get involved.
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