Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

news.cnet.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 276 posts

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#81

Post by scott_s »

radiusq wrote: post #73
cletus wrote: post #62

I've had this argument with several people. Their position is that "it's my house/apartment, I should be able to do what I want with it" (even when renting they use this argument). My argument is that this is not and has never been true. You can't, for example, run a tannery in your apartment. What's more, as a resident (and especially if I were an owner) I wouldn't want my building being a de facto hotel. An endless…

Your argument is completely shallow and void of reason.. > You can't, for example, run a tannery in your apartment Why not? Whats your argument? >What's more, as a resident (and especially if I were an owner) I wouldn't want my building being a de facto hotel. If I owned a building then I set the rules/laws. This is about property rights, not about what you think is right or wrong. If I want to turn my home into a tr…

I think the tannery comment was a statement of fact: there are laws against using residential spaces for business purposes. If you own a building, you set the rules, but not the laws. Again, this is not a moral statement, but a recognition of how things work.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#82

Post by venomsnake »

Diamons wrote: post #34
toomuchtodo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God forbid we more efficiently allocate resources in a dynamic way. If done safely and ethically, its a fabulous with for consumers.

At the end of the day, it's a hotel. I don't want to live next to someone from somewhere else who isn't here to be my neighbor. What about my rights?

Move out. The simplest possible solution.

Your rights does not include the right to constant neighbors. or likable, or any. In the deed you have there is no clause of restricting the mobility of the others. (if there is - this is another thing entirely).

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#83

Post by tomkarlo »

davidw wrote: post #72
cletus wrote: post #62

I've had this argument with several people. Their position is that "it's my house/apartment, I should be able to do what I want with it" (even when renting they use this argument). My argument is that this is not and has never been true. You can't, for example, run a tannery in your apartment. What's more, as a resident (and especially if I were an owner) I wouldn't want my building being a de facto hotel. An endless…

The term that's involved in this is "externality": costs that are imposed on people not involved in the actual transaction (use of the place for payment). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality You rightly point out, that, for instance, in a crowded apartment building, having something like a dynamite storage facility would probably be a bad idea. However, other things might be annoying too, such as having children…

At some point, the cost of adjusting for the externalities will erase the savings of AirBnB. Which would indicate that the much of the "benefit" of AirBnB simply comes from not paying for the externalities.

Beyond the neighbors, there would also need to be city taxes to pay for the regulation and oversight of the rental (and fire inspections, etc), and the use of city services by visitors (who probably don't pay income taxes in that city.) Basically, "hotel tax", which in some places is 20% or more and right now you don't pay when using AirBnB.

Not to mention additional liability insurance, as you can bet that the level of risk incurred by someone doing short-term rentals is much higher than a normal homeowner -- so they shouldn't be in the same risk pool.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#84

Post by sliverstorm »

davidw wrote: post #72
cletus wrote: post #62

I've had this argument with several people. Their position is that "it's my house/apartment, I should be able to do what I want with it" (even when renting they use this argument). My argument is that this is not and has never been true. You can't, for example, run a tannery in your apartment. What's more, as a resident (and especially if I were an owner) I wouldn't want my building being a de facto hotel. An endless…

The term that's involved in this is "externality": costs that are imposed on people not involved in the actual transaction (use of the place for payment). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality You rightly point out, that, for instance, in a crowded apartment building, having something like a dynamite storage facility would probably be a bad idea. However, other things might be annoying too, such as having children…

Yeah, AirBnB basically seems to be an exercise in converting externalities into profit.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#86

Post by rayiner »

washedup wrote: post #67
rayiner wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet has changed nothing here. The renters are physical people--it's irrelevant to the law whether they got there from an internet website or from an advertisement scrawled into a stone wall with a chisel.

I guess I mean another law that needs to be changed, not necessarily abolished. The law should be updated so that people can legal advertise their places on AirBNB. Not doing so would be neglecting a stream of revenue that could be beneficial to the city. When I say "made obsolete by the internet" I mean that some service or product made possible by the internet is requiring us to take a look at some piece of legisla…

Short term rentals and hotels have existed since time immemorial, and the laws were created in response to those services. The fact that AirBnB now allows advertising that service over the internet instead of a classified is neither here nor there.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#87

Post by tomkarlo »

Jun8 wrote: post #78
radiusq wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is completely shallow and void of reason.. > You can't, for example, run a tannery in your apartment Why not? Whats your argument? >What's more, as a resident (and especially if I were an owner) I wouldn't want my building being a de facto hotel. If I owned a building then I set the rules/laws. This is about property rights, not about what you think is right or wrong. If I want to turn my home into a tr…

Owning a building and an apartment are different things. If you own an apartment or condo, you are bound by the home owner's association rules, which can be pretty limiting.

Even if you own a building, you are still subject to zoning laws and other regulations like the fire code.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#88

Post by aegiso »

radiusq wrote: post #73
cletus wrote: post #62

I've had this argument with several people. Their position is that "it's my house/apartment, I should be able to do what I want with it" (even when renting they use this argument). My argument is that this is not and has never been true. You can't, for example, run a tannery in your apartment. What's more, as a resident (and especially if I were an owner) I wouldn't want my building being a de facto hotel. An endless…

Your argument is completely shallow and void of reason.. > You can't, for example, run a tannery in your apartment Why not? Whats your argument? >What's more, as a resident (and especially if I were an owner) I wouldn't want my building being a de facto hotel. If I owned a building then I set the rules/laws. This is about property rights, not about what you think is right or wrong. If I want to turn my home into a tr…

It was less an argument than a statement of fact. These are the laws.

If you want to argue what fundamental rights should or shouldn't be afforded to a property owner, HN probably isn't the place. This stuff has a long and complicated political history, which I humbly encourage you to learn more about.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#89

Post by baby »

cletus wrote: post #62

I've had this argument with several people. Their position is that "it's my house/apartment, I should be able to do what I want with it" (even when renting they use this argument). My argument is that this is not and has never been true. You can't, for example, run a tannery in your apartment. What's more, as a resident (and especially if I were an owner) I wouldn't want my building being a de facto hotel. An endless…

I can't agree more with you, and in the mean time I feel really bad because AirBnB is a blessing in this world.

There's no real efficient way to enforce such a law though, I don't really know for the US but we have many craig-list style websites in France where you can find a place to rent for a week (and avoid AirBnB's fee). AirBnB just made everything simpler, and safe (rating people, profiles, etc...)

One more thing. AirBnB is especially relevent in big cities like New York, Hong Kong, ... where hotels are super expensive and rent as well.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#90

Post by tomkarlo »

nsxwolf wrote: post #69
tptacek wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also worth mentioning that it's probably never been safe for renters to let out their places on Airbnb, as boilerplate leases universally restrict subtenants to those approved by the landlord.

I looked into adding Airbnb-friendly language to my lease for my rental property, but I am not a lawyer and any lawyer I could hire to work on the language would probably be breaking new ground. I had a friendly chat last year with someone at Airbnb about them possibly taking the reigns on this, but I don't think anything ever came of it. It might go a long way towards getting friendlier relations between landlords a…

Why would a landlord (at least in a low-vacancy area like NY or SF) ever accept such an amendment to the lease?
Post reply on HN