171–180 of 398 posts
It's funny to see Winer complaining about commenters being too quick to criticize from a limited background... when the whole issue starts from an article he wrote "in 15 minutes" criticizing Melissa Mayer based on a single short conversation.
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The difference is consent. Now, of course, that sparks off a question about whether submitting your post or your startup to HN is de facto consenting to be verbally abused. But I think that's a pretty useful conversation to have.
The Internet is not yours. If you put content on the PUBLIC Internet, consider yourself to be consenting to any abuse the Internet as a whole wishes to dish out in return.
So if a person decides to post a picture of themselves on their blog, they're consenting to having that picture photomanipulated onto hardcore pornography then emailed to their family and co-workers, for example?
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Would you like to explain what about that you find so offensive? Because that whole line of indignation really felt like so much pearl clutching to me. Dude writes really whiney content. And then there's his name. That's super unfortunate. That's not, like, a slam on his family or a dig about his person. That's just a linguistic observation. If I made compost bins, for example, that's a completely legit parallel for…
Why don't you just flag articles from his domain? Why don't you restrict yourself to commenting on the things he's sad rather than commenting on him?
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>You can probably stop reading now, because you obviously didn't read the whole Linus/Mauro thread from the beginning, and don't really want to understand. Amazing.
I will confess, that was a bit over the top, and the main reason I deleted the original comment; but much like many people who criticized Linus's comment, it was also out of context. Negativity comes in many forms, selective quoting is just one.
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Would you like to explain what about that you find so offensive? Because that whole line of indignation really felt like so much pearl clutching to me. Dude writes really whiney content. And then there's his name. That's super unfortunate. That's not, like, a slam on his family or a dig about his person. That's just a linguistic observation. If I made compost bins, for example, that's a completely legit parallel for…
I've heard people insult Dave's last name many times over the years. You are the first I've seen that meant it as Winer == Whiner. It is more commonly trying to call him a reference to the male anatomy, which is dumb and offensive. I think that's the way many would have taken your comment.
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I thought I'd respond to personal accusations.
Respond to them how you like if you're doing it there. But here? People prefer better conversation.
Attacking people, getting push back, getting personal and portraying himself as a victim is a pattern that can be found over the last decade. Talking about this pattern is relevant when we discuss the behavior of HN posters here. Especially if Dave provokes this behavior in others with the goal of getting attention to himself. Then people agreeing on HN behavior in the comment of the second submission just play according to the book.
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> this is the Internet, The Internet is a big place. If you want YouTube comments ("Lol yuo dikk yo mama haet you die of cancer!!1!" you can go to youtube. > at least it's one in which it's possible for any participant, big or small, to improve the discussion Yes. Let's keep working at making HN better. Comments like this ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5731152 ) should be vigorously downvoted.
In the same vain, why do we have random blog posts on hn. If you wanna blog, take it to a blog. If you wanna show off some tech or code, bring it to hn. EDIT: I'm not just talking about this specific post, I don't really care when linus yells at somebody in a mailing list etc. If it's some opinion piece or fluff piece I just don't really get why it's here.
Perhaps because a subset of people find it interesting/enforces their opinions/serves as ammunation against what they dislike/etc etc ..
It might be hard to prevent.
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The difference is consent. Now, of course, that sparks off a question about whether submitting your post or your startup to HN is de facto consenting to be verbally abused. But I think that's a pretty useful conversation to have.
Whenever you put your own work in the world, then expect criticism. It doesn't mean verbal abuse should be the norm - it just means that criticism is most likely gonna' happen. HN isn't the only online community - and it's most likely not your target market for a startup. So pushing a product that's not intended for HN users as a target demographic, and bleeding over every critique here is the wrong move. If anything…
I think you'd agree that feedback does not equal verbal abuse. So, to go back to the original question, do you feel that by asking for feedback you're consenting to be verbally abused, or do you feel that's not the case?
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We have as much right to defend the behavior as you have to attack it. It's an arbitrary questions of norms and of tolerance to criticism. In modern society it seems that we're so isolated and insecure in ourselves that we can't handle criticism and meanness. That everyone must be over socialized to be overly concerned about what everyone else thinks and not be concerned about the objectivity of what we're trying to…
The sooner people understand that anti-social behaviour is about community and not about rights the better, but I still see people confusing the two. Yes you've got a right to be rude, you've also got a right to blather on for two hours about Dragonball Z. Both behaviours will leave adults concluding that you're not capable of mature discussion. And if you and your mates establish a norm of anti-social behaviour, you…
I have no problem with the idea that in this community, Paul Graham is the best role model for communication. But let's not pretend that the place is flawed purely because of it's demographic.