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Angry young Indians: What a waste

economist.com

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Re: Angry young Indians: What a waste

#111

Post by cscurmudgeon »

chailatte wrote: post #108
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious about this. Other than the US, UK and a few Scandinavian countries, what countries do you think speak English better than India? 1) The younger generation is much much less corrupt. 2) Almost nobody pays for a masters in science and engineering. Those who do startup eventually end up doing it in India. I know a bunch of my friends running profitable startups.

http://www.ef.com/epi/ Phillipines Malaysia Singapore Argentina Lots of eastern european countries They all have way better infrastructure than India

http://www.tholons.com/TholonsTop100/pdf/Tholons%20Top%20100...

Look at those rankings for outsourcing. Also, we should look outside of outsourcing: there is a reason why the top research labs of IBM, MSFT, HP, GE etc have labs in India and not in those countries. More Indians will move out of business process outsourcing and into hard core technology and research outsourcing.

Re: Angry young Indians: What a waste

#112

Post by zenbowman »

spiderPig wrote: post #52
f1vespeed wrote: post #20

As a US-raised Indian I'm not familiar with the macro details. But I've been living in India for the past few years working for a startup, so let me identify some low-hanging fruit. 1) Incredibly, shockingly poor hygiene. Dirty black rags being used repeatedly to dry plates at restaurants. Idlys being cooked on plastic sheets inside hot streamers. Infernoes of uncollected trash burning on streets. Rats and cockroache…

Very well articulated. I'm a kid who came over to the US for higher studies. All these problems are deep-rooted in our culture. The culture doesn't encourage innovation and curiosity is shunned in most of the schools. Kids get into this rat race of scoring high grades without even realizing it. (I'm going to go off on a tangential rant here onward): Sadly, it looks like most of us are proud of it. And the ones who co…

I've definitely met those types of Indians, for whom a job at a big company is the holy grail, and the majority of them come from a position of financial insecurity.

On the other hand I've met others who have a much more scientific bent, so I don't think its "Indian culture" that forces people to be anti-innovation.

It's the conservative strain of Indian thought which naturally dominates the brains of people raised in financially insecure conditions. Poverty breeds materialism.

Re: Angry young Indians: What a waste

#113

Post by f1vespeed »

kamaal wrote: post #87
f1vespeed wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived half my life as a kid in Bangalore and half in the US. All I can say is if you're willing to eat Chapati and Dal and never go out to "do" things while living in the San Francisco area, basically, if you live like an Indian, you won't have trouble "getting somewhere". It's not like rent is cheap in India, and getting your kid into a decent college is way harder.

Bangalore today is nothing like when you were a kid. The amount of effort you would expend to take you to 'getting somewhere' in the US, will take you miles ahead in India these days. As I said the demand is huge, genuine competition is no way existent.

Actually, I'm back in Bangalore now working for a startup. The work is interesting, but the pay is only $18,000 for the same product management role that netted me $60 grand just out of college in San Mateo. Sure, I face absolutely no competition, since there is very little product talent here. Doesn't mean I'm going places in terms of a lifestyle or financial security. If I live like a peasant compared to my life back in the states, I save less money. What's disheartening is that so many goods and experiences are hitting dollar prices in this city right now. (Meat, nice produce, beer, good clothes).

Re: Angry young Indians: What a waste

#114

Post by lifeguard »

chailatte wrote: post #107
lifeguard wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

check out BRIC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRIC STRATFOR: "Because India's population will surpass that of China in 2030 or so, even as India's population will get gray at a slower rate than that of China, India may in relative terms have a brighter future. As inefficient as India's democratic system is, it does not face a fundamental problem of legitimacy like China's authoritarian system very well might." -- R. Ka…

China GDP: 8.3T (2012) Brazil GDP: 2.5T (2012) Russia GDP: 2.1T (2012) India GDP: 1.9T (2012) India isn't even in the same league as China. India has to compete with Russia/Brazil. BRIC is an old grouping from years ago. Having a huge population and being democratic doesn't automatically give you a bigger economy. Look at South Korea (1.3T) or Japan (6T) comparatively.

China will follow a similar path as the USSR. Dynamic efficiency is not very good in state managed economies.

Also, read the CIA world fact book pages for China/India.

Re: Angry young Indians: What a waste

#115

Post by sstrudeau »

jalayir wrote: post #64
chailatte wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a huge pessimist about India. here's why. 1.) Everyone in the thread is ignoring a huge point raised by the author: this is the last biggest bubble we will ever witness in our lifetime (and possibly for many lifetimes) due to a.) unpeg of gold standard b.) shift from farm to factory work c.) shift from one income to two income household d.) machine/software advances and many other factors has produced the greate…

Most of the points above are hyperbolic and quite silly, to be frank. For example - "robots, automation and artificial intelligence resulting in jobs destruction" - I suppose just like the personal computer lead to "jobs destruction"?

Actually, yes. Just like advances in agricultural technology lead to job destruction in agriculture. We went from a majority of the global human population working in agriculture to a tiny minority in a few centuries. That labor was largely absorbed into industrial manufacturing. Manufacturing jobs have also been destroyed by automation (e.g., why a growing manufacturing sector in the US is not adding new net manufacturing jobs). The service sector has absorbed much of that labor, but on the low end, those jobs tend to be much more poorly paid and stable (which explains no income growth for the bottom 80% of the US population in 30+ years, despite a growing economy). Computers and automation are starting to eliminate service sector jobs as well (and not just on the low end). It isn't clear which "sector" will absorb this new labor unlocked by growing productivity, but it is clear to see how these change can create a growing economy but also growing inequality which can lead to a less pleasant society overall...

Re: Angry young Indians: What a waste

#116

Post by snowwrestler »

chailatte wrote: post #31
f1vespeed wrote: post #20

As a US-raised Indian I'm not familiar with the macro details. But I've been living in India for the past few years working for a startup, so let me identify some low-hanging fruit. 1) Incredibly, shockingly poor hygiene. Dirty black rags being used repeatedly to dry plates at restaurants. Idlys being cooked on plastic sheets inside hot streamers. Infernoes of uncollected trash burning on streets. Rats and cockroache…

I am a huge pessimist about India. here's why. 1.) Everyone in the thread is ignoring a huge point raised by the author: this is the last biggest bubble we will ever witness in our lifetime (and possibly for many lifetimes) due to a.) unpeg of gold standard b.) shift from farm to factory work c.) shift from one income to two income household d.) machine/software advances and many other factors has produced the greate…

Every single one of your pessism factors was true in 1932, and we all know how the world economy did after that.

The economic potential in genetics, robotics, nanotechnology, nuclear energy, space exporation, etc. are enormous. We just need to keep moving forward.

I'm not saying that you're wrong about the negative factors; they are all risks to a better future. I'm just saying that they can be overcome; it's been done before.

Re: Angry young Indians: What a waste

#117

Post by Volpe »

lifeguard wrote: post #114
chailatte wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China GDP: 8.3T (2012) Brazil GDP: 2.5T (2012) Russia GDP: 2.1T (2012) India GDP: 1.9T (2012) India isn't even in the same league as China. India has to compete with Russia/Brazil. BRIC is an old grouping from years ago. Having a huge population and being democratic doesn't automatically give you a bigger economy. Look at South Korea (1.3T) or Japan (6T) comparatively.

China will follow a similar path as the USSR. Dynamic efficiency is not very good in state managed economies. Also, read the CIA world fact book pages for China/India.

with 8.3T GDP... are you serious? Could you describe the scenario where China has an economic collapse?

If such a scenario were to happen... it'd would be pretty catastrophic the world over. GIven how tied the US and China's economies are tied, I don't think the US would allow a USSR style collapse... :\

Re: Angry young Indians: What a waste

#118

Post by general_failure »

The biggest problem with India is the lack of nationalism. Most Indians are not proud of India. If they were, all it's problems would get fixed for real. India is like 'Europe' - each state is a country of it's own. My solution to the whole problem is to spin off many states into separate countries. The people would be lot happier that way - most don't want to live together anyway. And then have some sort of schengen visa to enable free movement between states. 'State' level nationalism is a lot lot lot more than 'Country' level nationalism.
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