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Angry young Indians: What a waste

economist.com

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Re: Angry young Indians: What a waste

#101

Post by gurvinder »

kamaal wrote: post #86
joonix wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you overestimate how much people are willing to live in shitty conditions in exchange for business opportunities. The US may not be a boomtown but it has opportunity to live a comfortable life if you can add value. Most people would prefer quality of life + "just getting somewhere" (the American standard) over living in a dump + business opportunities.

There no 'shitty conditions'. Not by what I perceive and experience. People who opted to stay in India to reap the benefits of the IT boom in the 90's are in something like a million times better conditions than the guys who left to the US in the 90's. If you want to be super rich, this is the time to be in India. And it will be at least for the next half century, there is too much room to grow and there is far littl…

I will prefer to be "not so rich" in a country where majority is "not so rich" rather than be "super rich" in a country where majority is "super poor".

Re: Angry young Indians: What a waste

#103

Post by harichinnan »

nnq wrote: post #89

I'm not Indian, but I truly hope that India rises above it's current economical level, for the good of the entire world. Having whole generations of very hard-working ( too hard working!) young people that have grown with an unhealthy tolerance for very bad working conditions, work abuse and for bad living conditions decreases the quality of working conditions worldwide (or in EU and US at least) and enforces a stere…

For people who qualify for H1B and other immigration visas, the following are true. 1. Vast majority are from really rich families. Like million dollars in family assets. The education is either very expensive or they were top students in their schools, which usually happens because they went to private schools. 2. People working in India never take low pay after 2 years of experience. It's only during the first few years that we trade an opportunity to gain experience with low wages. Theres a very high attrition rate in all it companies in India and salaries are ever increasing. 3. Young Indians have the opposite problem of being hard working. Most spend extended hours in office to socialize than to actually get stuff done. 4. The part about growing smugness is true. Indians traditionally seldom call ourselves "experts" in any thing even if we know stuff. 5. Losing h1b is big deal. You are given notice to leave country with your family in no time. Technically u need to leave the country within a month if you don't want to be barred from reentry. So in that one month, you have to try and sell all your stuff, cars, house, furniture, discontinue schooling for your kids and collect transcripts, medical records,file taxes,payoff debt. Instead most people would jump into any job to hold onto the status.

Re: Angry young Indians: What a waste

#104

Post by cscurmudgeon »

chailatte wrote: post #56
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are better countries for companies to invest in that have better infrastructure and speaks better english. You might want to reword that. :) More seriously, I am optimistic because 1) the older generation will die off and 2) almost 50% of the grad students in any top US university are from India. (This includes programs in AI and Robotics. Count me in that too.)

I don't claim to speak good english :) 1.) the young generation is still corrupt and apathetic and spineless 2.) assuming your number is correct (which I doubt), 90% of those students who overpaid for a masters are staying in the US

I am curious about this. Other than the US, UK and a few Scandinavian countries, what countries do you think speak English better than India?

1) The younger generation is much much less corrupt.

2) Almost nobody pays for a masters in science and engineering. Those who do startup eventually end up doing it in India. I know a bunch of my friends running profitable startups.

Re: Angry young Indians: What a waste

#105

Post by cscurmudgeon »

chailatte wrote: post #58
lifeguard wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a pretty outline with no supporting data. China has been very nervous about the Indian economy for some time now.

> China has been very nervous about the Indian economy for some time now. lol right. go to shanghai or hong kong, then go to mumbai, and tell me that with a straight face.

No matter how shiny your prison is, you are still living in a prison.

Re: Angry young Indians: What a waste

#106

Post by nnq »

harichinnan wrote: post #103
nnq wrote: post #89

I'm not Indian, but I truly hope that India rises above it's current economical level, for the good of the entire world. Having whole generations of very hard-working ( too hard working!) young people that have grown with an unhealthy tolerance for very bad working conditions, work abuse and for bad living conditions decreases the quality of working conditions worldwide (or in EU and US at least) and enforces a stere…

For people who qualify for H1B and other immigration visas, the following are true. 1. Vast majority are from really rich families. Like million dollars in family assets. The education is either very expensive or they were top students in their schools, which usually happens because they went to private schools. 2. People working in India never take low pay after 2 years of experience. It's only during the first few…

What you say at (1) is not gonna be true anymore: with all the open courses and other high quality learning resource available online for free, at least in the IT/CS/Math and even physics are, we'll have a huge number of mostly self educated professionals, and in areas like software where a nice portfolio of projects trumps any fancy diploma they will be very valued and employable! And they will also be put in a position of selling themselves short by comparing themselves with western Europe or US schooled people (the guy with a diploma from a fancy US uni will have the guts to ask for far more than someone with a diploma from an Indian uni, even if he is less competent! ...and this is the best case scenario: if, let's say, a Harvard schooled guy is stupid enough to ask for less than he's worth, anyone else will have to make do with even less than he does!) and they will accept worse deals. And that's the danger I'm talking of: this will make all employers expect more for less, from everyone!

About (4), indeed, having a family to take care of greatly restricts your mobility (and I bet this is what the guys doing US immigration policy bet on!) - but you can avoid the issue before it happens: take a better look at other options besides US as most EU countries have more flexible VISAs and such (yeah, having to speak German - Berlin area seems to be shaping up as Europe's SV nowadays - and French and maybe Spanish or something else fluently on top of English is hard, especially for techies with not so good language and social skills, but it opens up a lot of doors and gives you more bargaining power for yourself).

Re: Angry young Indians: What a waste

#107

Post by chailatte »

lifeguard wrote: post #85
chailatte wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China has been very nervous about the Indian economy for some time now. lol right. go to shanghai or hong kong, then go to mumbai, and tell me that with a straight face.

check out BRIC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRIC STRATFOR: "Because India's population will surpass that of China in 2030 or so, even as India's population will get gray at a slower rate than that of China, India may in relative terms have a brighter future. As inefficient as India's democratic system is, it does not face a fundamental problem of legitimacy like China's authoritarian system very well might." -- R. Ka…

China GDP: 8.3T (2012)

Brazil GDP: 2.5T (2012) Russia GDP: 2.1T (2012)

India GDP: 1.9T (2012)

India isn't even in the same league as China. India has to compete with Russia/Brazil. BRIC is an old grouping from years ago.

Having a huge population and being democratic doesn't automatically give you a bigger economy. Look at South Korea (1.3T) or Japan (6T) comparatively.

Re: Angry young Indians: What a waste

#108

Post by chailatte »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #104
chailatte wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't claim to speak good english :) 1.) the young generation is still corrupt and apathetic and spineless 2.) assuming your number is correct (which I doubt), 90% of those students who overpaid for a masters are staying in the US

I am curious about this. Other than the US, UK and a few Scandinavian countries, what countries do you think speak English better than India? 1) The younger generation is much much less corrupt. 2) Almost nobody pays for a masters in science and engineering. Those who do startup eventually end up doing it in India. I know a bunch of my friends running profitable startups.

http://www.ef.com/epi/

Phillipines Malaysia Singapore Argentina Lots of eastern european countries

They all have way better infrastructure than India

Re: Angry young Indians: What a waste

#109

Post by invdevm »

Whatever the people are saying about is right. But consider this point, inspite of all these bottlenecks, India is growing rapidly.

Can people of US or China remain united if 3000 languages are spoken in one country alone?

After US denied India the supercomputers, we built one of the finest one in a very short time and that too with very little money.

And sorry NASA, you cannot match ISRO.

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