Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#111

Post by pranavpiyush » Fri, May 17, 2013, 3:39 AM UTC

Respect is at the center of this issue. If you feel you have been disrespected (knowingly or unknowingly), you need to bring that up. At the same time, if you have lost respect, you need to communicate that to the other co-founders. I wrote a post about communication that talks about this in detail - read here: http://www.pranavpiyush.com/communication-for-startup-co-fou...

Either way, communicate! Put it all out there. If, even then, things don't seem like working out (i.e. the other 2 don't see a problem that needs solving), then leave.

As for what you do next, don't start a business for the sake of starting a business. Do it if you have a vision for what the world should look like. If you believe in the vision strongly enough, nothing can get in the way of you building the product/company to fulfill it. If not, don't fret. Working for a corporation is not the end of the world.

Find a place where you will learn something. There's a nice post by Garry Tan about learning vs. earning. Read it. http://blog.garrytan.com/lessons-from-2-5-that-i-wish-i-knew...

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#112

Post by ardiyu07 » Fri, May 17, 2013, 3:41 AM UTC

shadowmatter wrote: post #16

> I think my co-founders are idiots, that they fouled up their side of the deal, but I feel as though I've invested too much time and energy to bail now. You've got to let go of this attitude. If you cling to it, then you will never leave, even if your co-founders are idiots and the business is a failure. What you need to do is quit as soon as possible. Only then can you start on a better endeavor and improve your qu…

I agree with you. Plus we don't know the real story or from the other (the co-fos) points of view, it's hard to decide who are the real idiots, or to put it softly, who are the real masterminds. Especially being a founder, being able to work with any kinds of people is a must.

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#113

Post by owenfi » Fri, May 17, 2013, 4:11 AM UTC

nashequilibrium wrote: post #108

pud wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. If you've truly lost faith in the founders and business -- which you have -- you should leave now & cut your losses. It's not going to work out, regardless of salary. As for how to make money after you leave -- get a job or find consulting work. Then jump back into starting a business when you're ready again.

I agree totally but i will add one more option based on this quote "I believe in our product, but I don't believe in our business model." If this is the case and assuming u have nailed a customer pain point down since its been 15 months, i would suggest that you leave and execute the same idea with the business model you believe will work. If you and the VC are on the same page and these guys don't have much tech exp…

It seems like you would be opening yourself up to lawsuits if you take this course of action and are successful. Not that I might not do it if I believed in something, but I'd want to be very careful.

If you're out of money it might be hard to pull this off as I've heard seeking funding is a full time job (or two, as your cofounders have shown) so the product has to be mostly good to go (for at least the time being) if that's going to work.

Using the product you already built with company funds is almost definitely off limits (IANL), so I'm not quite sure how that strategy could be feasible.

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#114

Post by alexdowad » Fri, May 17, 2013, 4:25 AM UTC

I don't know what to do about your startup dilemma. It would have been wise to set a deadline (and communicate that to your partners) at the very beginning; hopefully you can do that next time. If you do leave, you said you "don't want to work for a big corporation again": if you'd prefer to consult for private clients, I've found oDesk to be a great place to find them. Just be selective in which jobs you bid on.

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#115

Post by blowski » Fri, May 17, 2013, 4:32 AM UTC

neltnerb wrote: post #69

marshray wrote: post #24

This situation is actually very simple, don't let it feel overcomplicated: Tell them you need an actual salary and actual health insurance in the next 30 days. If the venture can pay you to keep at it, that's great. Otherwise you'll have to start looking around for a real job in a couple of weeks. Even the most brick-and-mortar type of businessperson will completely understand this. Stick to your schedule. It will ei…

To not comment on the rest, since it's highly dependent on your personal situation: "I feel as though I've invested too much time and energy to bail now." This is a very dangerous way to think about it. This is your life you're investing here. Perhaps to break it down to oversimplified but still valuable math: (probability of success)*(personal outcome) = expected outcome If you think they have a 10% chance of succee…

There was a play on Radio 4 a while back, where a guy orders a sandwich but it never arrives. Deciding that leaving would mean wasting the hour he's already waited, he stays in the cafe for years, waiting for the sandwich to arrive.

Read 'Eric Ries - The Lean Startup'. Your time at this startup is not necessarily wasted, if you've learnt stuff, networked, and somehow helped you get your next job.

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#116

Post by vytasgd » Fri, May 17, 2013, 4:50 AM UTC

I empathize. (With everything except the cofounders' idiocy, I absolutely love mine) I was brought in with my brother(MBA), we've been working on our web app for almost 10 months, and it's grown and morphed and changed more than we could have predicted. It's the first startup for any of us. The lack of salary is tough, particularly in silicon valley... but the ups and downs, the "best day or worst day of my life" that happens over and over, is a big part of the excitement of a startup (and also what wears me down the most). We are trying to figure out our future, and if our venture is something we can push on a little more for or if we should be getting jobs where we can work on our stuff on the side until it gains enough traction to raise capital or starts generating strong enough revenues. I'd be interested to know what you end up doing and if you ultimately have any advice... pm me when you make the decision if you feel so inclined.

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#117

Post by geophile » Fri, May 17, 2013, 4:57 AM UTC

"I think my co-founders are idiots, that they fouled up their side of the deal, but I feel as though I've invested too much time and energy to bail now."

If they are idiots, then the only rational choice is to cut your losses. The size of your investment has zero impact on their ability to turn things around.

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#118

Post by pyre » Fri, May 17, 2013, 4:59 AM UTC

Cogito wrote: post #78

djbender wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel as though I've invested too much time and energy to bail now. Look up Sunk Cost Fallacy. Also this related episode of Freakonomics is great: http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/09/30/new-freakonomics-radi...

It's easy to presume that sunk costs should have no weight when considering the relative value of different options. For many endeavours a certain amount of investment is required before returns are seen - investments in time and money in particular. For this reason there is almost always a cost to be considered switching between endeavours. So, while I agree that throwing good money after bad is a silly thing to do,…

  | For many endeavours a certain amount of
  | investment is required before returns are seen

Compulsive gamblers tell themselves the same things. What is really needed is a objective view of the situation.

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#119

Post by john_w_t_b » Fri, May 17, 2013, 5:24 AM UTC

Cyclone_ wrote: post #8

enoptix wrote: post #5

Is this anonymous copy-and-paste medium how people start to deal with their problems now? What happened to just talking to people or making tough decisions? I've seen more of these posts in the last year than I have in my entire time on HN. I'm sorry you are having a tough time but you need to either 1) have a hard talk with your co-founders about your business model. present facts. make your case. they will listen.…

I would agree, talking with the co-founders is the best route to go. Come up with good examples and/or comparisons for why you think the business model won't be a success but also propose a solution to what route you think the business should go.

Yes, I think after 15 months you should have a serious discussion with them. It might take a few days to agree on a plan. Make it clear you need income to go forward. They're probably thinking the same thing as you anyhow.

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#120

Post by vytasgd » Fri, May 17, 2013, 5:24 AM UTC

uahal wrote: post #56

I feel for you. I've been on the "idiot" side before but I understand where you're coming from. A couple things I'd have you do: - Don't take advice from people who know very little and have no context. - Clarify your ownership position in the company. "Can you explain my equity thing to me again?" Know what you own now. Know what you're entitled to in the future. If you already know this information, you can skip th…

just +1 for the desiderata