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I Don't Want Your Fucking App

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141–150 of 270 posts

Re: I Don't Want Your Fucking App

#141
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Americans, by contrast, seem a lot more upset about the swearing. I wonder why that is? There's a prudish streak in the US that I really believe comes from the fact that the country was originally settled by people too religious and too concerned with overtly moral social interaction to be tolerated in 17th century England. That may seem like too easy an explanation but I really do think there is some truth to it…

Fuck you. I'll just leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbZhpf3sQxQ George Carlin, inspired by Lenny Bruce

this video is actually just the exception that proves the point. Because this was so controversial, it was so popular.

Re: I Don't Want Your Fucking App

#143

How about we drop the prudishness, and discuss the points raised by the article? Seriously, what's with all the language moralising? This guys is totally free to make his points colourfully and passionately however he wants to. If it upsets you so much (it really shouldn't) then don't read it. His word choices are not hate speech or discriminatory so the fact that they may offend your sensibilities has precisely zero…

I posted this comment about obscenities on another thread recently, but I think it is relevant to this thread as well.

According to Paul Fussell's Class: A Guide Through the American Status System, aversion to profanity is a middle class thing. The upper class[1] do not use euphemisms for profanity or obscenity. Fussell wrote that Jilly Cooper reported "I once overheard my son regaling his friends: 'Mummy says pardon is a much worse word than fuck.'"

I doubt that many members of the upper class (see Fussell's book for a definition of upper class, it is roughly the tastes of "old money" but not dependent upon actual wealth) read Hacker News. It is likely that those who do not object to obscenities such as the word "fuck" are more socially liberal freethinkers who dislike formality. Those who do object are likely to be members of the middle class who believe (foolishly) that in censoring profanities and vulgarities, they are emulating the upper class. The phenomenon of "professionalism" is also a product of the middle class — to the upper class, selling things for a living is distasteful and déclassé. "Professional" language is usually very timid and full of circumlocutions as the primary goal is to not say anything that anyone may find offensive.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Class-Through-American-Status-System/d...

Re: I Don't Want Your Fucking App

#144
post #98

Reading through the comments I am glad I am not the only one who finds over the top profanity upsetting. Yes , the author is free to make his/her point any way they want to. and No, not everyone who thinks that this profanity is undue is a prude. and I dont think it is fair to make a culture or age characterization based on a user's response. Extreme or sometimes, any profanity changes the tone of the article. that a…

Considering you're brushing off everything he said and trotting out tired justifications nobody asked for maybe you're just using any excuse - the profanity will do - to justify ignoring him.

Besides, those good reasons aren't.

a) You spent good money, but did you make it a good experience for the user?

b) But usually the app is trash compared to a web browser, and offers a far worse experience.

c) Retaining user engagement is hard when you pop up unrelated nag screens instead of making the user's task easier on your site than your competitors'.

d) I want a website, you want to implant a brain worm.

This is exactly why I would agree with the poster. Tons of entitled nonsense justifying making your users' experience worse - for them.

What sites are you affiliated with?

Re: I Don't Want Your Fucking App

#145

How about we drop the prudishness, and discuss the points raised by the article? Seriously, what's with all the language moralising? This guys is totally free to make his points colourfully and passionately however he wants to. If it upsets you so much (it really shouldn't) then don't read it. His word choices are not hate speech or discriminatory so the fact that they may offend your sensibilities has precisely zero…

I don't mind Americans being oversensitive to swearing. I can respect cultural differences, and IRL I will usually make an effort not to swear in front of Americans.

What pisses me off however is the judgmental bullshit excuses Americans use for their intolerance, like swearing being "unprofessional" or "childish". Utter nonsense.

Please stop pretending your oversensitivity to "bad words", which in my experience is unique on the planet, has some kind of logical reason, and stop lecturing people about it.

Especially on HN, a place one assumes is mostly visited by well-educated worldly people, such lecturing seems completely misplaced.

If you have an issue with swearing, keep it to yourself. Even grammar nazis are more constructive and useful.

Re: I Don't Want Your Fucking App

#147
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot speculate on the behaviour of Americans but as a Brit I can agree on your point that I am rather unfazed by swearing. In fact I worked in an environment in which my boss and MD both swore during general conversation and even more passionately during some interesting discussions. I was drawn to those people and that form of communication because it felt we were really free to say anything we wanted and that m…

In my research during a (somewhat fruitless) comment transaction here on HN about pirates (actual salt sea-dog type pirates) I came across the following story which I think some of the people commenting here might find interesting... I'm in the process of writing this up as a sea shantie: A pirate captain by the name of Bartholemew Roberts captured a British official by the name of Plunkett who had double crossed a c…

If you do get around to writing this up as a sea shanty, please send it my way!

Re: I Don't Want Your Fucking App

#148
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I'm the creator of the site) I've noticed - and I may be wrong - that all the folk in the UK are unfazed by the swearing and have reacted quite positively either in person or on Twitter. The Americans, by contrast, seem a lot more upset about the swearing. I wonder why that is? Either way, I do wonder if some sections of the tech community are to... corporate in their approach to language. Look at the fuss when Linu…

The Americans, by contrast, seem a lot more upset about the swearing. I wonder why that is? There's a prudish streak in the US that I really believe comes from the fact that the country was originally settled by people too religious and too concerned with overtly moral social interaction to be tolerated in 17th century England. That may seem like too easy an explanation but I really do think there is some truth to it…

I'm American, and I have no problem with cursing or politically incorrect speech in person with a group of friends, coworkers, or even loose acquaintances. I just don't like it on public-facing (or "customer-facing," although that doesn't apply in this case) media. For me, it's not a question of morality, offensiveness, or corrupting children, but rather of perceived professionalism and legitimacy.

Re: I Don't Want Your Fucking App

#149
post #65

How about we drop the prudishness, and discuss the points raised by the article? Seriously, what's with all the language moralising? This guys is totally free to make his points colourfully and passionately however he wants to. If it upsets you so much (it really shouldn't) then don't read it. His word choices are not hate speech or discriminatory so the fact that they may offend your sensibilities has precisely zero…

> This guys is totally free to make his points colourfully and passionately however he wants to. I agree. He's created a very good and useful showcase of a specific frustration that many of us would prefer to never implement or deal with. For an exercise in venting, this style makes a lot of sense. > His word choices are not hate speech or discriminatory so the fact that they may offend your sensibilities has precise…

If sharing this in your organisation is a career limiting move, may I suggest that your organisation is irretrievably fucked (see what I did there) and only cares about superficial garbage. Such organisations are doomed and tend to be stacked with useless ladder-climbers.

My advice; share the article with relevant people if they need education about doorslams. If people complain, tell them that they're shooting the messenger and should pay attention to what they're actually doing, instead of wasting their shareholders' money enforcing bullshit that serves no purpose except for making useless, self-righteous moral defenders feel better.

The ideal solution is to never hire self righteous moral defenders because they actively wreck the culture of organisations. Objecting to swearing is a clear case of intolerant asshats choosing to be offended. To avoid these losers in your company, swear when conducting the interview, and if they're so utterly thick and self-righteous that they show offense, stop the interview immediately and show them the door.

The person a couple of posts back nailed it when they said this:

"His word choices are not hate speech or discriminatory so the fact that they may offend your sensibilities has precisely zero relevance to anything."

... and finally, I thought the article was great. I'm sharing it at work with the product team. Since our product team is free of idiots, I'm pretty sure this won't be a career limiting move.

Re: I Don't Want Your Fucking App

#150
post #31

How about we drop the prudishness, and discuss the points raised by the article? Seriously, what's with all the language moralising? This guys is totally free to make his points colourfully and passionately however he wants to. If it upsets you so much (it really shouldn't) then don't read it. His word choices are not hate speech or discriminatory so the fact that they may offend your sensibilities has precisely zero…

(I'm the creator of the site) I've noticed - and I may be wrong - that all the folk in the UK are unfazed by the swearing and have reacted quite positively either in person or on Twitter. The Americans, by contrast, seem a lot more upset about the swearing. I wonder why that is? Either way, I do wonder if some sections of the tech community are to... corporate in their approach to language. Look at the fuss when Linu…

>The Americans, by contrast, seem a lot more upset about the swearing. I wonder why that is?

Some cultures apply morals in their actual life choices, where other cultures apply them in their pretend politeness. Some of them seem to believe that being nice equates acting nice. But acting is deceit and manipulating, hence by definition not actually nice behavior.

But they do mean well, its just that they focus more on the symbolism of "good" behavior, than the reality of it. And thats generally the pattern: cultures that focus strongly on symbolism will also strongly apply morality symbolically. For example: americans worship their flag, but hate their government.

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