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“The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

news.consumerreports.org

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Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#161

Post by Groxx »

corresation wrote: post #148
Groxx wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably. from the video: "This car performs better than anything we've ever tested before. Let me repeat that: not just the best electric car, but the best car. It does just about everything really really well."

They specifically state that their love of the vehicle is because it's an electric car -- that side effects of being an electric car yield a result that they enjoy (e.g. low battery packs helping weight distribution, etc). Does that really make every other car "mediocre"?

If electric cars allow producing things that are so much better, why haven't we seen them from other car companies? What's that R&D going to?

In general, I got the feeling that "mediocre" was referring to all the shitty interfaces on cars, and general lack of polish that Tesla seems to be doing correctly. This is something that car companies could / should be doing for minimal effort since they employ so many and spend so much money, but they're not.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#162

Post by cma »

rgbrenner wrote: post #132
cma wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the other manufacturers opened a plant in california, or bought an existing one like Tesla, wouldn't they also get the same ZEV credits which they could sell or use for themselves? > To date Tesla has lost more than billion dollars Are you including liquid assets, like the California plant, as losses? (not accusing you, I haven't looked at their numbers)

"Are you including liquid assets, like the California plant" Since when is a plant a liquid asset?

I meant to say illiquid =P

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#163

Post by mattmanser »

obviouslygreen wrote: post #115
127001brewer wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real question to me is why are [Apple] not doing anything half as cool as what Musk has done in the past 10 years. I don't understand: what hasn't Apple done that isn't "half as cool"? Clearly, the iPad alone is a significant product that has literally changed the computing industry.

"Cool," perhaps, but not even vaguely innovative. It doesn't change any business models, it doesn't bypass anything or make any real changes , it's just a big iPhone (or, really, an iPod Touch). It hasn't "changed the computing industry." It's introduced a new line of the same products we had before. "Let's make a bigger one" was a really great idea, but it's not really in the same league.

People use iPads all the time now in situations they previously wouldn't have used a computing device.

I know of plenty of companies that have bought one just to easily demo stuff or to be able to do stuff in the field that they wouldn't have done earlier.

The iPad came out to wide acclaim because they got it right and showed it was possible. So many nay sayers saying even 6 months after release that it wouldn't be popular, it was a tiny market. It's very easy to reinvent history but I remember the crunchpad/joojoo coming out before the iPad, and it got panned everywhere even though many of us wanted a big screen iPhone.

Let's make an electric car is on the same level of innovation as lets make a bigger iPhone. Both had already been thought of a decade before, both had already been tried before, both had already had failed entrants that made no money and it turns out they were actually both pretty large technical challenges to do it well enough that the consumers would actually buy the product.

I would say they were in exactly the same league.

And lets not forget that Apple had already single handedly created the portable computing market in the first place with the iPhone.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#164

Post by corresation »

Groxx wrote: post #161
corresation wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They specifically state that their love of the vehicle is because it's an electric car -- that side effects of being an electric car yield a result that they enjoy (e.g. low battery packs helping weight distribution, etc). Does that really make every other car "mediocre"?

If electric cars allow producing things that are so much better, why haven't we seen them from other car companies? What's that R&D going to? In general, I got the feeling that "mediocre" was referring to all the shitty interfaces on cars, and general lack of polish that Tesla seems to be doing correctly. This is something that car companies could / should be doing for minimal effort since they employ so many and spe…

Again, this car is $90,000, which is a market that the major automakers aren't traditionally interested in (aside from very small-run flagship vehicles). I would expect the Tesla to be very polished at that price point.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#165

Post by cma »

codex wrote: post #74
cma wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the other manufacturers opened a plant in california, or bought an existing one like Tesla, wouldn't they also get the same ZEV credits which they could sell or use for themselves? > To date Tesla has lost more than billion dollars Are you including liquid assets, like the California plant, as losses? (not accusing you, I haven't looked at their numbers)

$1B is roughly the GAAP losses for TSLA since they went public. I think that in order to resell ZEV credits more than 13% of a manufacturer's cars must be electric, which is not true of any other luxury manufacturer.

That doesn't add up with this:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=tsla+earnings

But, that may not be GAAP. Where did you find that total?

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#166

Post by jquery »

technoslut wrote: post #86
lanstein wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has to be a market for a company to add a V12 sound to the Tesla S.

Well it was a secondary underlying theme to the lousy movie "The Dilemma". I'm sure it can be done but the question is whether someone wants it. Many in that class would probably adjust quicker to the silence of EV's than a lie. Do keep in mind that engine noise is not only beneficial to the driver but cyclists, other motorists and at crosswalks as well. It's not a problem that is easily solved and satisfied by all p…

> Do keep in mind that engine noise is not only beneficial to the driver but cyclists, other motorists and at crosswalks as well.

As a pedestrian, I disagree. Cars make far too much noise. People will adapt to them being quieter by using their eyes and looking both ways. I look forward to the day when living in a city doesn't mean hearing a constant drone of traffic.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#167

Post by jquery »

rjurney wrote: post #130
technoslut wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it was a secondary underlying theme to the lousy movie "The Dilemma". I'm sure it can be done but the question is whether someone wants it. Many in that class would probably adjust quicker to the silence of EV's than a lie. Do keep in mind that engine noise is not only beneficial to the driver but cyclists, other motorists and at crosswalks as well. It's not a problem that is easily solved and satisfied by all p…

I almost get hit by hybrids when not paying attention. Cars need to make noise like natural gas needs to have a scent added. Safety.

I see a market for car engine "ringtones."

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#168

Post by jquery »

orangethirty wrote: post #70
acchow wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To me it's better than listening to music. I humbly submit that you haven't listened to the right music.

Music hath nothing over Ferrari V12 engines. May I present the sounds of a Ferrari Formula 1 V12 from 1994 . Turn up your speakers. Get a hair brush ready. All of your body hair will stand up as the wonderful sound of God's engine crawls up under your skin and makes your essence tingle in pleasure. You might want to smoke a cigarette afterwards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBXUOomynxw

It sounds like Optimus Prime farting.

I think you're projecting your own emotional attachment to speed onto a very unpleasant sound.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#169

Post by jchrisa »

cbr wrote: post #122
obviouslygreen wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Cool," perhaps, but not even vaguely innovative. It doesn't change any business models, it doesn't bypass anything or make any real changes , it's just a big iPhone (or, really, an iPod Touch). It hasn't "changed the computing industry." It's introduced a new line of the same products we had before. "Let's make a bigger one" was a really great idea, but it's not really in the same league.

The Model S is "Cool", perhaps, but not even vaguely innovative. It doesn't change any business models, it doesn't bypass anything or make any real changes , it's just a new kind of car that doesn't use gas (really, a big golf cart). It won't "change the automotive industry." It's introducing a new line of the same products we had before. With the Model S you still have roads, parking, large upfront costs, a driver,…

I'd rather have no cars than electric cars.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#170

Post by Groxx »

corresation wrote: post #164
Groxx wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If electric cars allow producing things that are so much better, why haven't we seen them from other car companies? What's that R&D going to? In general, I got the feeling that "mediocre" was referring to all the shitty interfaces on cars, and general lack of polish that Tesla seems to be doing correctly. This is something that car companies could / should be doing for minimal effort since they employ so many and spe…

Again, this car is $90,000, which is a market that the major automakers aren't traditionally interested in (aside from very small-run flagship vehicles). I would expect the Tesla to be very polished at that price point.

You hear similar things for their other cars (still high-end though, yes) - basically everything they've demoed has had reviews saying "wow" to the electric, and "even more wow" to the execution of everything else. Why is Tesla doing so well, with the same people, unless the existing industry has been lazy?
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