“The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car” • Hacker News Board

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#71

Post by therandomguy » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:06 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

It is the investment in existing factories and supply chain. They invest billions into these calculating the returns over long periods of time (think 15 to 30 years). This is also the reason why we are able to afford cars. If we want new, innovative cars every 3 years the manufacturers will have to ensure their ROI over 3 years which means the price tag will go up x10.

Our world view is a little skewed because of our ability to launch software products over a weekend or release a new build every afternoon.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#72

Post by mhb » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:06 PM UTC

slantyyz wrote: post #52

mhb wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they do reviews well. But a lot of their consumer advocacy would profit from better (or any?) cost/benefit analysis.

I generally agree, as there is a difference between a great car to drive at any price vs. a great car for the normal person. Seems like a great car though - I'm sure it complicates things for its competitors in the same price class.

My intention was to distinguish between their product reviews, which are very useful, and their consumer protection initiatives. Many of these will cost a lot and may not justify the benefits. I don't think I've ever seen them make an argument which includes the cost of a government mandate that they favor.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#73

Post by ececconi » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:07 PM UTC

therandomguy wrote: post #71

bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

It is the investment in existing factories and supply chain. They invest billions into these calculating the returns over long periods of time (think 15 to 30 years). This is also the reason why we are able to afford cars. If we want new, innovative cars every 3 years the manufacturers will have to ensure their ROI over 3 years which means the price tag will go up x10. Our world view is a little skewed because of our…

Great answer.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#74

Post by codex » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:08 PM UTC

cma wrote: post #57

codex wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because Tesla makes an extra $7.5K from each car via the federal tax credit and an extra $70M each quarter selling ZEV credits. Without these they would not be profitable. So they have more money to apply to the fit and finish of the car than luxury manufacturers which don't make an electric. It's because Tesla makes an extra $7.5K from each car via the federal tax credit and an extra $70M each quarter selling Z…

If the other manufacturers opened a plant in california, or bought an existing one like Tesla, wouldn't they also get the same ZEV credits which they could sell or use for themselves? > To date Tesla has lost more than billion dollars Are you including liquid assets, like the California plant, as losses? (not accusing you, I haven't looked at their numbers)

$1B is roughly the GAAP losses for TSLA since they went public.

I think that in order to resell ZEV credits more than 13% of a manufacturer's cars must be electric, which is not true of any other luxury manufacturer.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#75

Post by beachstartup » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:10 PM UTC

lanstein wrote: post #66

beachstartup wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I humbly submit that you haven't been driving the right cars.

There has to be a market for a company to add a V12 sound to the Tesla S.

sure there's a market, it consists of ferrari, maserati, lamborghini, aston martin, and AMG.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#76

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:11 PM UTC

maratd wrote: post #19

bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

> Why all the mediocre product that's the tail end of pumping billions of dollars into R&D staffed by largely the same folks Tesla has been hiring? In an established firm, existing product lines pay the bills. No company is an island onto itself. Companies have partners, large clients, relationships, etc. Bottom line? To keep existing product lines healthy, you must pay respect to your loyalties. You start seeing the…

[deleted]

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#77

Post by akjj » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:11 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

First of all, Tesla was not created by Musk alone. He owns a large portion of the company, but he had co-founders with more experience in the automobile industry.

Second of all, there's a reason that Tesla started with a high-end sports car and that's because bringing a sports car to market is easier than bringing an economy or mid-priced sedan. Most mass-market cars have small (or even negative) profit margins. In order to make financial sense, the development costs need to be spread over a large production run, preferably world-wide. The size of the big auto companies is so that they can take advantage of economies of scale to make a cost-competitive car. Building decent cars at a competitive price is a different market than the one Tesla is engaged in.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#78

Post by aidenn0 » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:14 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

History is littered with failed auto companies, so no, it's not that easy. Tesla very nearly didn't make it too (IIRC Musk had to sink a lot of personal money into it to keep it afloat).

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#79

Post by loceng » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:14 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

Don't forget he had his own money to put into it and the confidence / belief he could do it. Try finding someone to give you enough capital to start a big holistic undertaking as this ... I don't think it'll happen.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#80

Post by 127001brewer » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:16 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #76

maratd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why all the mediocre product that's the tail end of pumping billions of dollars into R&D staffed by largely the same folks Tesla has been hiring? In an established firm, existing product lines pay the bills. No company is an island onto itself. Companies have partners, large clients, relationships, etc. Bottom line? To keep existing product lines healthy, you must pay respect to your loyalties. You start seeing the…

[deleted]

The real question to me is why are [Apple] not doing anything half as cool as what Musk has done in the past 10 years.

I don't understand: what hasn't Apple done that isn't "half as cool"?

Clearly, the iPad alone is a significant product that has literally changed the computing industry.