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“The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

news.consumerreports.org

51–60 of 290 posts

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#51
post #4

No offense, at these price points the car better damn well be perfect. When they deliver a car at an every man's price point and score very high then I will be impressed. A year to two down the road and maintain that level of performance I will be impressed. Until then, cars are these price points have large enough margins that extra time and detail can be baked into the process. Kudos for beating the other luxury gu…

Tesla is hard at work taking the knowledge they've gained developing the Model S and applying it to create a ~$30k car, which will be meant for the every man. Until then, though, I think they deserve some recognition for beating out every car Consumer Reports has tested in their very first attempt at a sedan.

Consumer Reports tested the $89k model.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#52
post #40
post #7

I have learned cynicism and skepticism about a lot of media, but Consumer Reports remains one of the few sources -- the only one I can think of offhand -- that I trust without a second thought. I like their business plan and focus on doing what they do well. Their reviews mean something (even to someone like me who lives in Manhattan and doesn't drive).

Yes, they do reviews well. But a lot of their consumer advocacy would profit from better (or any?) cost/benefit analysis.

I generally agree, as there is a difference between a great car to drive at any price vs. a great car for the normal person.

Seems like a great car though - I'm sure it complicates things for its competitors in the same price class.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#53
post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

Saturn was an attempt to do something similar--though less ambitious. It worked for awhile, but ended up subsumed by GM.

The Saturn started really strong IIR, but by the end the product just wasn't there.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#54
post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

"Why all the mediocre product that's the tail end of pumping billions of dollars into R&D staffed by largely the same folks Tesla has been hiring?"

Because they have hundreds of billions already invested in factories. That's why.

You want to drive an electric car? Great, this means that the kilometer assembly line making gears, piston and other stuff is now completely useless. The investment goes down the drain.

In R&D department you have 50 something years old specialized in fluids, internal combustion engines and moving parts wear.

How they are going to feel when you remove ALL the internal fluids but refrigeration, remove the combustion engine and minimize moving parts and wear?.

Now you need experts on electric motors, and power electronics. What are you going to do with the old staff?

That is the reason.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#55
post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

Because being excellent doesn't come easy? Elon Musk is not just 'some guy' - At Tesla he's "Head of Product Design", not just some businessman who hired a few engineers.

I think that's fair. Do you think it's largely because the guy who runs the company is, Steve Jobs like, making the product development decisions?

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#56
post #28
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're only focusing on the "electric car" part. By all accounts, the rest of the car is an amazing package, even without the electric motor. I think the question is why was Tesla able to push the Model S so far ahead of the current industry in those other respects?

It's because Tesla makes an extra $7.5K from each car via the federal tax credit and an extra $70M each quarter selling ZEV credits. Without these they would not be profitable. So they have more money to apply to the fit and finish of the car than luxury manufacturers which don't make an electric. It's because Tesla makes an extra $7.5K from each car via the federal tax credit and an extra $70M each quarter selling Z…

east coaster?

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#57
post #28
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're only focusing on the "electric car" part. By all accounts, the rest of the car is an amazing package, even without the electric motor. I think the question is why was Tesla able to push the Model S so far ahead of the current industry in those other respects?

It's because Tesla makes an extra $7.5K from each car via the federal tax credit and an extra $70M each quarter selling ZEV credits. Without these they would not be profitable. So they have more money to apply to the fit and finish of the car than luxury manufacturers which don't make an electric. It's because Tesla makes an extra $7.5K from each car via the federal tax credit and an extra $70M each quarter selling Z…

If the other manufacturers opened a plant in california, or bought an existing one like Tesla, wouldn't they also get the same ZEV credits which they could sell or use for themselves?

    > To date Tesla has lost more than billion dollars
Are you including liquid assets, like the California plant, as losses? (not accusing you, I haven't looked at their numbers)

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#58
I just drove a Tesla Model S last weekend. Here are my perceptions, as I was SUPER curious about the car before I drove it:

Pros: 1) The drive is AMAZING. The car is quiet, it accelerates amazingly, and the regenerative braking is really cool. 2) It feels like the future. The huge computer screen is cool (but distracting, you can go on the internet at anytime). 3) The ability to get software updates all the time is cool when thinking about cars.

Cons: 1) It is impractical for an urban dweller in a condo building: you have to pay for an electrician to come install a special outlet, then pay for the electricity (which is fine if you own a house, getting this through a condo association is a nightmare). 2) The whole time you are thinking about the battery charge. What if you forget to plug in your car at night? 3) For the cost, it lacks feature a luxury car should have: park assist is one feature. The model i drove was around 90k and the more "luxury" features felt like a standard sedan (the leather, the wood, etc). You are definitely paying for the tech. 4) What if someone hits you? How much compared to other cars does it cost to get repaired? The salesperson couldn't answer this. 5) The car is connected to 3G for maps (unless you upgrade) and at some point, you will be paying for this service. 6) You have to plan out where you power up for a trip longer than 200 miles...so annoying.

If you have the capacity or need for a fun, toy car at this price point...check out the Model S. I don't find it practical as a main car in the city.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#59
post #42
post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

There's something to be said about a driven leader pursuing a vision. The other good example would be Apple + Steve Jobs. For example, I know that with Ford Motor Company, as an example, the Ford family has a heavy hand in the top-level management (i.e. previous CEOs have been kicked out 'unofficially' because they didn't follow what the Ford family wanted or didn't live up to their expectations). That kind of stuff…

Agree re: Apple + Jobs

It's interesting that you bring up Ford. Of the big American auto companies, the only ones who have been putting out product I'm not just remotely interested in, but actually interested in, is Ford.

IMHO, decent looking product, good value, mileage ratings look good, interior design is decent, etc.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#60
post #28
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're only focusing on the "electric car" part. By all accounts, the rest of the car is an amazing package, even without the electric motor. I think the question is why was Tesla able to push the Model S so far ahead of the current industry in those other respects?

It's because Tesla makes an extra $7.5K from each car via the federal tax credit and an extra $70M each quarter selling ZEV credits. Without these they would not be profitable. So they have more money to apply to the fit and finish of the car than luxury manufacturers which don't make an electric. It's because Tesla makes an extra $7.5K from each car via the federal tax credit and an extra $70M each quarter selling Z…

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