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You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

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Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#131

Post by threedaymonk »

xxchan wrote: post #82
kryptiskt wrote: post #35

The saddest thing is how morning persons have managed to make a virtue out of their biological clock and that their preferences are so deeply ingrained in society now.

I'm the 4am-12pm sorta sleeper variety, but it does, you know, make sense to conduct society's business during daylight hours.

> it does, you know, make sense to conduct society's business during daylight hours.

Not necessarily! In hotter parts of the world, they deliberately avoid conducting business during the middle part of the day. (That may come with earlier rising, offset by a siesta.)

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#132

Post by [deleted] »

Falling3 wrote: post #129
enraged_camel wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Did the job offer say "must attend morning meetings"? Some job offers specify work hours and most don't. Well, the job offer also did not say "must wear a suit and tie everyday" or "must treat coworkers with courtesy" or any other implicit part of being a working professional in the corporate world. I agree with your original post though.

Since when is wearing a suit and tie an implicit part of being a working professional?

[deleted]

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#133

Post by enraged_camel »

Falling3 wrote: post #129
enraged_camel wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Did the job offer say "must attend morning meetings"? Some job offers specify work hours and most don't. Well, the job offer also did not say "must wear a suit and tie everyday" or "must treat coworkers with courtesy" or any other implicit part of being a working professional in the corporate world. I agree with your original post though.

Since when is wearing a suit and tie an implicit part of being a working professional?

I gave it as an example. The point is that there are many things you have to do everyday - some trivial, some not - that are not going to be spelled out in your offer letter. You can either do them, or find somewhere else to work.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#134

Post by michaelochurch »

enraged_camel wrote: post #128
michaelochurch wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People can claim "implicit assumptions" all they want. Most rapists believe in an "implicit assumption" that the woman wants to have sex with them. That doesn't make it true. I can't tell if you're trolling or serious, and I'm not sure I even want to know.

Well, you are the one who likened corporate bosses to rapists, so I cannot tell if you are trolling either.

No, I didn't. I was pointing out the ridiculous nature of "implicit assumptions" arguments that can be taken to all sorts of extremes.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#135

Post by doktrin »

enraged_camel wrote: post #127
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything worse than a sanctimonious early-riser who thinks that work is more valuable because of the time of day that it occurred? And how much waste do we all incur because of these indignant shits who insist that everyone must awaken simultaneously, get in our cars simultaneously, choke the streets and freeways simultaneously, line up at Starbucks simultaneously, arrive at our jobs simultaneously, etc. etc…

There is a lot of value in having everyone in the office at the same hours. It ensures that communication occurs in a timely manner. I work at a software company as a Sales Engineer, and part of my job is to answer questions clients may have. There is nothing more annoying than having to respond to the client's question with "I'm sorry, I was going to ask one of our developers but it seems they have gone home for the…

In my experience, customer facing professionals are often quite bad at gauging the actual importance of client concerns, and good at magnifying them. I certainly was.

Scheduling adequate coverage is ultimately a concern for upper management. If they allowed "critical issues" to go unresolved on anything other than a rare occasion, the issues were probably not critical to begin with.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#136

Post by chc »

enraged_camel wrote: post #127
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything worse than a sanctimonious early-riser who thinks that work is more valuable because of the time of day that it occurred? And how much waste do we all incur because of these indignant shits who insist that everyone must awaken simultaneously, get in our cars simultaneously, choke the streets and freeways simultaneously, line up at Starbucks simultaneously, arrive at our jobs simultaneously, etc. etc…

There is a lot of value in having everyone in the office at the same hours. It ensures that communication occurs in a timely manner. I work at a software company as a Sales Engineer, and part of my job is to answer questions clients may have. There is nothing more annoying than having to respond to the client's question with "I'm sorry, I was going to ask one of our developers but it seems they have gone home for the…

Eh, just because somebody is in the office doesn't mean he's available at a moment's notice. Couldn't the same argument be made against meetings? It can't be any less annoying having to say, "I'm sorry, I was going to ask one of our developers but it seems he's in a meeting."

In fact, in either case, I'd say something like "I don't have a great answer myself, but I'm checking with the developer in charge of that feature and I'll have all the details for you by $TIME."

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#137

Post by jonsterling »

The obnoxious tone of this article seems to have obscured the fine point which it sets out to make. This is not about how some sleeping patterns are superior or inferior to others, or how you're a better or worse person depending on when you get up.

This is about how if you agree to so something, then you must do it. Thus, if you are scheduled to attend a meeting at 7:30 or 8am, then you must go to it: otherwise, the word that describes you is “irresponsible”.

If mornings are a problem for you, you need to make an arrangement _beforehand_ with your coworkers and/or employer: this is the way that you can avoid being a total self-centered dick.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#138

Post by tks2103 »

michaelochurch wrote: post #43

What a self-righteous douchebag. I'm a fully "respectable" 10-to-5:30 sleeper and it doesn't make me morally superior to anyone else. It's a combination of biology, age, and lifestyle circumstances, two of which I have no control over and one which I have little control over. No one likes waking up in the morning. That's not even true. That's a false-misery play: make people feel bad by presenting the view that every…

he said "No one likes waking up in the morning."

do you think he suffers from delayed sleep-phase disorder?

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#139

Post by enraged_camel »

michaelochurch wrote: post #134
enraged_camel wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you are the one who likened corporate bosses to rapists, so I cannot tell if you are trolling either.

No, I didn't. I was pointing out the ridiculous nature of "implicit assumptions" arguments that can be taken to all sorts of extremes.

You basically Godwinned the discussion, dude. Except you used rapists rather than Hitler. There are ways to make your point without resorting to ridiculous hyperboles.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#140

Post by enraged_camel »

chc wrote: post #136
enraged_camel wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of value in having everyone in the office at the same hours. It ensures that communication occurs in a timely manner. I work at a software company as a Sales Engineer, and part of my job is to answer questions clients may have. There is nothing more annoying than having to respond to the client's question with "I'm sorry, I was going to ask one of our developers but it seems they have gone home for the…

Eh, just because somebody is in the office doesn't mean he's available at a moment's notice. Couldn't the same argument be made against meetings? It can't be any less annoying having to say, "I'm sorry, I was going to ask one of our developers but it seems he's in a meeting." In fact, in either case, I'd say something like "I don't have a great answer myself, but I'm checking with the developer in charge of that feat…

If they are in a meeting, they will most likely be out within the next 30-60 seconds, which is when they will see my email/IM and respond. If they are out for the day, that's at least a one-day delay.
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