Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

thejoeconwayblog.wordpress.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 148 posts

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#121

Post by whyleyc »

_delirium wrote: post #84
yid wrote: post #13

I never imagined that the nerd-flame-war that would cause me to take a HN break was over waking up in the morning, and not about bashing some poor database or microbenchmark.

Actually, I think this post, which is also causing me to take an HN break, is not very surprising from that perspective. It highlights one of the worst tendencies of HN I've been worried about a while. HN is actually quite good on technical issues. People disagree, but it's rarely completely idiotic. There is smart stuff, and information is exchanged, and the overall level of debate is good. But on philosophical issu…

"Simple sound-bites, strong opinions ... are what's worst about HN."

Says the poster who singularly fails to address any of the points made by the OP, choosing instead to engage in ad hominem attacks.

Stop posturing and heed your own advice.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#122

Post by michaelochurch »

DrewAllyn wrote: post #118
michaelochurch wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did the job offer say "must attend morning meetings"? Some job offers specify work hours and most don't. If the person took a job offer knowing that there would be 7:00 meetings and then didn't show up, then I agree with you. Some job offers include hours so there are no surprises. Many trading firms start at 6:30, for example, and that's fine as long as both parties are clear about expectations ahead of time. If the…

There is a concept of 'normal' and if your sleep cycle is so far out of 'normal' that it interferes with your ability to do 'normal' things, then it is your responsibility to determine if that will be a problem before you accept the job, not the employers. Even in the case of trading that you brought up, if starting at 6:30 is normal in that field, then the employer shouldn't need to bring up in the offer that they e…

You opened yourself up here but I'm going to leave it as an exercise to the reader as to what the last three moves look like. I'll give a hint. The second of the three doesn't matter.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#123

Post by anonymoushn »

jaggederest wrote: post #58
anonymoushn wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modafinil is not a long-term solution as regular use causes tolerance.

As someone who has used it for this exact purpose, it's enough to use it occasionally to enable you to keep your sleep schedule in check. If I don't manage my sleep schedule well, I end up waking up later and later, and having to loop over. Modafinil perhaps once a month allowed me to reset without having to burn a couple days being useless.

Ah, this is clever. I'm glad it works for you.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#124

Post by doktrin »

michaelochurch wrote: post #114
RestlessMind wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, I don't think he understands that most people end up in meetings they didn't voluntarily agree to attend. So? A job is a contract between you and your employer. If you don't want to honor it, choose a different contract. If your boss wants you to come at a certain time, show up at that time or change the boss. Those who show up for meetings on time are morally superior to those who don't because they can't…

If your boss wants you to come at a certain time, show up at that time or change the boss. You realize that in most firms, that also means (even if it's a large company and there's no point in it being that way) changing companies, right? And also that it takes about a month to do that, and that you'll usually be fired if you get found out for looking? And also that people who change companies "too often" get the "jo…

> am fucking sick of arguing about the real world with Internet "libertarians" who've not spent significant time in it.

I couldn't agree more with this statement. There's a certain blend of inexperience and privilege that pervades some discussions on HN, and it's unfortunate.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#125

Post by doktrin »

xradionut wrote: post #90
michaelochurch wrote: post #43

What a self-righteous douchebag. I'm a fully "respectable" 10-to-5:30 sleeper and it doesn't make me morally superior to anyone else. It's a combination of biology, age, and lifestyle circumstances, two of which I have no control over and one which I have little control over. No one likes waking up in the morning. That's not even true. That's a false-misery play: make people feel bad by presenting the view that every…

It's not really a rant about sleep habits. It's a rant about excuses and not meeting commitments.

Frankly, it reads like a venomous, unconstructive rant that cloaked itself in "personal responsibility" cheerleading.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#126

Post by enraged_camel »

michaelochurch wrote: post #103
DrewAllyn wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They agreed to attend meetings when they accepted the job offer. If you aren't capable of doing what is deemed necessary for your job (whether its actually necessary or not is a separate question) then maybe you are in the wrong job.

Did the job offer say "must attend morning meetings"? Some job offers specify work hours and most don't. If the person took a job offer knowing that there would be 7:00 meetings and then didn't show up, then I agree with you. Some job offers include hours so there are no surprises. Many trading firms start at 6:30, for example, and that's fine as long as both parties are clear about expectations ahead of time. If the…

>>Did the job offer say "must attend morning meetings"? Some job offers specify work hours and most don't.

Well, the job offer also did not say "must wear a suit and tie everyday" or "must treat coworkers with courtesy" or any other implicit part of being a working professional in the corporate world.

I agree with your original post though.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#127

Post by enraged_camel »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #105
michaelochurch wrote: post #43

What a self-righteous douchebag. I'm a fully "respectable" 10-to-5:30 sleeper and it doesn't make me morally superior to anyone else. It's a combination of biology, age, and lifestyle circumstances, two of which I have no control over and one which I have little control over. No one likes waking up in the morning. That's not even true. That's a false-misery play: make people feel bad by presenting the view that every…

Is there anything worse than a sanctimonious early-riser who thinks that work is more valuable because of the time of day that it occurred? And how much waste do we all incur because of these indignant shits who insist that everyone must awaken simultaneously, get in our cars simultaneously, choke the streets and freeways simultaneously, line up at Starbucks simultaneously, arrive at our jobs simultaneously, etc. etc…

There is a lot of value in having everyone in the office at the same hours. It ensures that communication occurs in a timely manner.

I work at a software company as a Sales Engineer, and part of my job is to answer questions clients may have. There is nothing more annoying than having to respond to the client's question with "I'm sorry, I was going to ask one of our developers but it seems they have gone home for the day." Note that this sometimes happens at 3pm, because the developer decided to come in at 5.30am and left at 2.30pm. Also note that similar things happened when I was working in tech support, and critical issues had to remain unresolved until the next day because the developer wanted to leave early and catch the swell for that day's surfing session.

Bottom line is that there are a lot of fields (especially customer-centric ones) where the turnaround time for inquiries has to be extremely low. There are two ways to do this:

1. Give everyone Blackberry's that they must answer at all times 2. Have everyone come in at the same time

It's one or the other. Pick one.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#128

Post by enraged_camel »

michaelochurch wrote: post #117
RestlessMind wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did the job offer say "must attend morning meetings"? Some job offers specify work hours and most don't. But there is implicit assumption in a job offer that meetings ought to be attended on time. Sometimes, meeting times are decided based on mutual convenience. Sometimes, they are dictated by your boss. Nothing wrong with that.

People can claim "implicit assumptions" all they want. Most rapists believe in an "implicit assumption" that the woman wants to have sex with them. That doesn't make it true. I can't tell if you're trolling or serious, and I'm not sure I even want to know.

Well, you are the one who likened corporate bosses to rapists, so I cannot tell if you are trolling either.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#129

Post by Falling3 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #126
michaelochurch wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did the job offer say "must attend morning meetings"? Some job offers specify work hours and most don't. If the person took a job offer knowing that there would be 7:00 meetings and then didn't show up, then I agree with you. Some job offers include hours so there are no surprises. Many trading firms start at 6:30, for example, and that's fine as long as both parties are clear about expectations ahead of time. If the…

>>Did the job offer say "must attend morning meetings"? Some job offers specify work hours and most don't. Well, the job offer also did not say "must wear a suit and tie everyday" or "must treat coworkers with courtesy" or any other implicit part of being a working professional in the corporate world. I agree with your original post though.

Since when is wearing a suit and tie an implicit part of being a working professional?
Post reply on HN