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Gitmo Is Killing Me

nytimes.com

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Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#481

Post by StavrosK »

dsrguru wrote: post #480
StavrosK wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is patently false. I'm Greek, and I don't know any Greek (except maybe some right-wing fascists) who believes that their country was the best. Mindsets range from "it's shit" to "it might not be great, but it's my country". Seeing Americans in movies go "best country in the world!" sounds absurd to us, and "you can't do this to me, I'm an American" sounds ludicrous. The fact that everyone considers their country…

> Seeing Americans in movies go "best country in the world!" sounds absurd to us That sounds absurd to most Americans too. I've only heard that kind of rhetoric spoken by politicians, and it's definitely not a view most of us espouse. There are a large number of Americans who believe the U.S. has the most powerful military in the world, and there are a sizeable number of Americans who believe that the U.S. provides t…

Hmm, I think that we probably don't know the sort of people who would consider their countries the best in the world, but I have a feeling that there's a larger percentage of those in the US (think Bible belt) than in Europe. I imagine that this is localized, though, as there are people in Greece who are all Golden-Dawn fascist-patriots too. They're seen as uneducated caricatures, which I imagine is how their American counterparts are also seen there.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#482

Post by smalltalk »

onli wrote: post #172
rmc wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the UK claims to be the "Mother of all Parliaments" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament#Origins , and has songs calling itself "Land of Hope and Glory, Mother of the Free" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Hope_and_Glory ). I know more about UK & Ireland than others, but it's not hard to find other countries similar. France's national anthem ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Marseillaise ) is a song ab…

Honestly, no. Every country has people in it believing that, and songs accordingly. It is called nationalism, which is more common in some countries then others. If you would say those thinks over here, people would suspect you being a nazi. This "America is the greatest country on earth"-slogan is pretty specific for the USA. It is so typical that it became a klischee, we call it "american pathos". It is the same ca…

What is a "klischee"? Wherever you were educated can't have been much better than the US, which has the worst education system in the world (according to you). I'm sure the US also has the worst poverty in the world, the worst prison system in the world, the most killing and abduction of foreign civilians in the world, the most torture of its prisoners, but could you back that up with some sources or some rational thought?

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#483

Post by smalltalk »

StavrosK wrote: post #185
onli wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, no. Every country has people in it believing that, and songs accordingly. It is called nationalism, which is more common in some countries then others. If you would say those thinks over here, people would suspect you being a nazi. This "America is the greatest country on earth"-slogan is pretty specific for the USA. It is so typical that it became a klischee, we call it "american pathos". It is the same ca…

This is congruent with my observations as well. In my experience, Europeans do see the whole "God bless America" thing as ridiculously nationalistic, the same way many Americans do (cf Parker and Stone's Team America (is that the name?)).

And most Americans see the whole "monarchy" thing as ridiculously anachronistic with kings, queens, dukes, grand dukes, etc. and aristocracy of any kind as having no place in the modern world.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#484

Post by smalltalk »

rmc wrote: post #225
Nursie wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know of another country that has it quite so bad. I know of nowhere else in the western world where people fly flags or drape themselves in the flag with anything like the regularity of the US. It really sticks out compared to everywhere else I've been, and I've travelled to/in 30+ countries now.

Oh yeah the USAians really seem to go for flags. In most of Europe, only right wing nationalists and sports fans wave flags.

What is a "USAian"? Are you really so ridiculous as to believe that "American" is not the correct term?

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#485

Post by smalltalk »

nemof wrote: post #221
rmc wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they do. All countries claim to be the best.

in a post imperialist, post empire Europe we've grown beyond needing to swing our dicks around in a pissing contest. Some countries more than others it's true, but generally speaking there are better things to do than spend our time claiming our particular demesne in superior to all others.

And yet you're not post monarchy or aristocracy, so you haven't grown beyond needing to give people titles of duke and count and whatnot based on their birth.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#486

Post by StavrosK »

smalltalk wrote: post #483
StavrosK wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is congruent with my observations as well. In my experience, Europeans do see the whole "God bless America" thing as ridiculously nationalistic, the same way many Americans do (cf Parker and Stone's Team America (is that the name?)).

And most Americans see the whole "monarchy" thing as ridiculously anachronistic with kings, queens, dukes, grand dukes, etc. and aristocracy of any kind as having no place in the modern world.

And we Europeans think your big, boxy cars are ugly, so there!

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#487

Post by a-priori »

jackpirate wrote: post #471
a-priori wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's because I'm Canadian, but I think it's stupid not to read bills out loud at least once before they become law. In our House of Commons the procedure is to read each bill, out loud, three times before it is passed. Then it gets sent to the Senate where it's also read three times (mind you the Senate typically rubber stamps everything). So every law in Canada has been read out loud a total of six times , and…

That's downright amazing. I can't imagine it would be physically possible to read aloud all US bills passed in a year that many times. My impression is that some bills are upwards of a thousand pages. I would be really interested in comparing the average length of Canadian legislation with American legislation.

I have no ideas about the average length, but I'd guess a normal length would about 10-15 pages. You can check out recent bills passed here if you're interested:

http://openparliament.ca/bills/

(Hat tip to openparliament.ca, it's an awesome site)

In fact, our current government got in trouble in the last few years for passing two very large omnibus bills, C-10 (the "Safe Streets and Communities Act", which makes many changes to the criminal code) and C-45 (the "Jobs and Growth Act", which makes many fiscal changes, among other things).

http://openparliament.ca/bills/41-1/C-10/ http://openparliament.ca/bills/41-1/C-45/

They weigh in at 114 pages and 430 pages, respectively, in their normal two-column (English & French) layout. These are not typical and they caused a lot of commotion in the media and from the opposition when the government tabled them, mostly because of their lengths but also because of the limited amount of debate that was allowed about them.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#488

Post by peterwwillis »

a-priori wrote: post #440
peterwwillis wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

make it law to read aloud each bill before signing it into law Not only is this the stupidest solution to a complex problem i've ever heard, it's depressing that some people take it seriously.

Maybe it's because I'm Canadian, but I think it's stupid not to read bills out loud at least once before they become law. In our House of Commons the procedure is to read each bill, out loud, three times before it is passed. Then it gets sent to the Senate where it's also read three times (mind you the Senate typically rubber stamps everything). So every law in Canada has been read out loud a total of six times , and…

It's rare that every member of the US legislature is present at all times. Just because someone hears something, does not mean they are listening. They could simply present the bill electronically before signing instead of reading it aloud. Reading out the whole bill each time is fairly pointless if only one provision is in question.

But mostly this is stupid because it does not address the issue it purports to.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#489

Post by peterwwillis »

atsaloli wrote: post #421
peterwwillis wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

make it law to read aloud each bill before signing it into law Not only is this the stupidest solution to a complex problem i've ever heard, it's depressing that some people take it seriously.

What do you consider the problem? Let's say government growing out of bound (and government's power growing compared to an individual's power) is a problem. One way to curb that growth is to slow down the functioning of government. But if you don't consider monotonic growth of government a problem, then we are very far apart indeed. =)

I'm not here to discuss "the problem". Because there's totally just one problem with our government.

"Slowing down the functioning of government" is not a good thing. "The government" (by this I assume you mean legislation) already moves at a snail's pace. Making it go slower, so reforms and important issues take even longer than they already do to resolve? NOT HELPING.

People talk about the 'size' of 'government' like it's some kind of tangible property. Government is just the system by which our policies, actions and affairs are executed. It might be big, it might be small, it doesn't matter. It is whatever we need it to be.

What concerns me are the issues and how we deal with them, not some abstract idea like "too much" or "not enough" of the system. If we need to get a respectable budget planned, a "big" or "small" government will not fix that. Your budget may be smaller because your "government" is smaller, but that doesn't make it a good budget. Your regulations of certain businesses may be smaller, but that doesn't mean the new free reign these businesses have will result in customers being treated fairly or allowing other businesses to compete.

There are reason we have what we have. It's not like there's some super exponential growth formula being fed to a giant single celled organism called "government". There's hundreds of complex issues at hand, and your one-size-fits-all generic solution doesn't begin to address any of them. Rather it buries them under a carpet of obfuscation, waiting for the rug to be so choked by lack of observation that someone finally will throw it out for a new one.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#490

Post by nullc »

josscrowcroft wrote: post #158
jussij wrote: post #60

So much for the Declaration of Independence: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

The missing amendment: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all Americans are created equal..."

> "that all Americans are created equal..."

Except the ones the executive branch orders to be assassinated: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/05/us-targeted-killing...

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