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Gitmo Is Killing Me

nytimes.com

471–480 of 539 posts

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

make it law to read aloud each bill before signing it into law Not only is this the stupidest solution to a complex problem i've ever heard, it's depressing that some people take it seriously.

Maybe it's because I'm Canadian, but I think it's stupid not to read bills out loud at least once before they become law. In our House of Commons the procedure is to read each bill, out loud, three times before it is passed. Then it gets sent to the Senate where it's also read three times (mind you the Senate typically rubber stamps everything). So every law in Canada has been read out loud a total of six times , and…

That's downright amazing. I can't imagine it would be physically possible to read aloud all US bills passed in a year that many times. My impression is that some bills are upwards of a thousand pages.

I would be really interested in comparing the average length of Canadian legislation with American legislation.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone that understands politics understands that things can get done by applying a significant political push. Yes. What does that pressure look like? I've lobbied. A fair amount for an amateur. We had some small victories, but mostly lost ground. The victories we had were because we packed the hearings with warm bodies. Where are the people willing to pack the chambers over Gitmo? It absolutely should be closed…

I agree with you, people need to be motivated about closing Gitmo. People won't be motivated to do anything about it as long as everyone inside Gitmo is labeled a terrorist. If Obama et al truly felt that closing Gitmo was a priority, the news would be packed day after day with stories from the prison, humanizing the prisoners, and introduction of one legislation measure after another, all to drum up support (just li…

What motivates people is the human interest angle. The people upholding Gitmo have been very effective at keeping the detainees nameless and faceless.

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I worked on election integrity. Stuff like opposing internet voting, touchscreens, purging the voter registration databases, etc.

When we lost it was because we were a day late, a dollar short, outgunned, exhausted, ignorant, naive, internal strive, etc.

It's important to remember that our opponents have essentially unlimited resources. They also have the long view. You won this time? No biggie. They'll be back. They're happy with incrementalism, and will convert those inches into yards into miles.

A few years ago, remembering the prior overwhelming opposition to internet voting, they suspended the rules and fast-tracked the legislation. So no public hearings. The deed was done before we even noticed. This is why interest groups hire lobbyists; activism is not something you can sustain on a casual basis.

I will try again. Not quite done recharging my batteries.

Meanwhile, I'm working on better advocacy tools. So that future me and other activists have better data, tools, resources. A bit like the open government stuff from Sunlight Foundation. But more like the commercial legislation information systems that big lobbyists use.

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Some non-political friends wanted to know how to get involved. The key is to show up.

I encouraged them to pick their local city council meetings and just start showing up. (Many are televised or available via web.) Just being present will change their behavior. And there's absolutely a current local issue that you have an opinion on. So once you figure out what's what, you should testify.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#473

Gitmo was the first thing that clued me that I had made a mistake voting for Obama's promises (not that McCain would have ever gotten it instead!). It was such a complete reversal that I immediately knew his promises were completely worthless. I appreciate that there may be anger outs people in Gitmo, but they have every right to a trial I have. The double standard of what human rights mean if you are a US citizen an…

For me it was Obama's vote to give retroactive immunity to telecom companies that spied on Americans illegally. He wasn't even running for president.

Also as a general rule, look at a man's actions not his words and promises (more so if they are in politics) Now as you say -- big deal, what are other alternatives? There are not viable alternatives. So I just didn't vote.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For anyone who actually understands politics, the failure to close Gitmo was not Obama's fault." I disagree. For anyone that understands politics understands that things can get done by applying a significant political push. I think Obama symbolically tried, then threw his hands up in the air in defeat when he got some resistance from Congress. I assume this is because the political chips he would lose by pushing ha…

For anyone that understands politics understands that things can get done by applying a significant political push. Yes. What does that pressure look like? I've lobbied. A fair amount for an amateur. We had some small victories, but mostly lost ground. The victories we had were because we packed the hearings with warm bodies. Where are the people willing to pack the chambers over Gitmo? It absolutely should be closed…

I've lobbied. A fair amount for an amateur. We had some small victories, but mostly lost ground.

Obama is not an amateur.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this logic, if the gun control measures fail to pass Congress it should be the President's fault?

What I'm saying is nobody will blame his lack of effort. And, if history is any indication, he or his successors will keep trying until they do pass.

Indeed, and you only have to look at copyright for examples: SOPA, PIPA, CISPA, etc.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then Obama was counting on many people not to understand politics when he chose to make promises on things he wouldn't have the power to change.

An argument could be made that Obama was young, inexperienced and naive when he made those promises. But that's leaps and bounds different than accusing him of making promises and then breaking them. Because that implies malice. It implies that he lied . And I don't think we have any proof of that. Personally, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He's not a perfect president, but he's not awful either (l…

Is this along the lines of the "Once he got into office they showed him the OSHIT information" rationalization?

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#477
post #52

Hi, future generations! Political prisoners are being raped with food intubators to prevent themselves from committing suicide in America's secret torture prison, with the express consent and approval of President Obama, the American Congress, and the numerical majority of the American people. Love, 2013

Dear future generations, Clueless middle class Western programmers on Hacker News believed everything some guy in prion said and thought they understood national security realities better than the president of the US. And they made a bunch of brave comments. Much karma was exchanged. Love, 2013

This is the most obvious of obvious human rights violations. It’s blatant. How anyone can defend it is beyond me. Holding someone for years without trial is barbaric and disgusting.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#479
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But those other countries do not claim moral high ground in the same way the US does on so many other issues, or claim to lead the world with respect to values such as freedom and democracy (of which the right to a fair trial can be considered a part).

From the time I spent in the USA I think there are at least two parts to this. There is a certain degree of triumphalism based on the outcomes of the Second World War and Cold War but more interestingly (or perhaps importantly) it is used to convey a sense of optimism and foster nationalism that is targeted at immigrants and intended to get them all pulling in the same direction. Nobody wants to move to a country and…

I have lived in the US for my whole life, and there definitely is an Exceptionalist doctrine, particularly among the Republican party. However, the ideas of American Exceptionalism and Manifest Destiny go back much farther than WWII, all the way to the Puritan ideas of "civilizing" Native Americans to "Fifty-Four Forty or Fight!" to Roosevelt's imperialism and on. It's so ingrained in our national history that it's barely even questioned (any surprise why there has never truly been a viable Socialist movement in America?).

Your point about immigrants is interesting, though I'm not really in a position to comment on it. I can tell you, though, that a good portion of the US is very hostile to immigrants, and we have had a history of hostility (take a look at the Chinese Exclusion Act, for an extreme example). Our current political discourse is also very anti-immigrant, too, and the path to citizenship is very lengthy and difficult.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#480
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they do. All countries claim to be the best.

That is patently false. I'm Greek, and I don't know any Greek (except maybe some right-wing fascists) who believes that their country was the best. Mindsets range from "it's shit" to "it might not be great, but it's my country". Seeing Americans in movies go "best country in the world!" sounds absurd to us, and "you can't do this to me, I'm an American" sounds ludicrous. The fact that everyone considers their country…

> Seeing Americans in movies go "best country in the world!" sounds absurd to us

That sounds absurd to most Americans too. I've only heard that kind of rhetoric spoken by politicians, and it's definitely not a view most of us espouse.

There are a large number of Americans who believe the U.S. has the most powerful military in the world, and there are a sizeable number of Americans who believe that the U.S. provides the most opportunity for poor people to become rich through hard work (the "American dream"), but there are at least as many Americans who disagree with both, and I've never heard anyone in real life state that the U.S. is categorically "the best country in the world." Interestingly, I think it's safe to say that almost all Americans hold one view in common: no one likes the central government. That might be true in most democratic countries--I wouldn't know. But I don't think I've ever in my life heard an American state that they were satisfied with the government.

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