Gitmo Is Killing Me • Hacker News Board

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#51

Post by Locke1689 » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 5:20 AM UTC

mattstreet wrote: post #27

dublinben wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress deserves as much or more blame for this situation. They've prevented the President from carrying out his intended solution to this problem. Without their support, he is powerless to release these people.

Well I think he could put a bit more public pressure on them then. I really don't hear him bringing it up too often.

It's in his comments on every appropriations bill. You just don't care.

Let's all be honest: we don't think about Guantanamo. When people bring it up we'll hem and haw and say, "gee, that's just terrible," but we don't give a shit. Take it out of the spotlight and it may as well not exist.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#52

Post by jpxxx » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 5:22 AM UTC

Hi, future generations!

Political prisoners are being raped with food intubators to prevent themselves from committing suicide in America's secret torture prison, with the express consent and approval of President Obama, the American Congress, and the numerical majority of the American people.

Love, 2013

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#53

Post by iconjack » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 5:24 AM UTC

dublinben wrote: post #21

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #17

Gitmo was the first thing that clued me that I had made a mistake voting for Obama's promises (not that McCain would have ever gotten it instead!). It was such a complete reversal that I immediately knew his promises were completely worthless. I appreciate that there may be anger outs people in Gitmo, but they have every right to a trial I have. The double standard of what human rights mean if you are a US citizen an…

Congress deserves as much or more blame for this situation. They've prevented the President from carrying out his intended solution to this problem. Without their support, he is powerless to release these people.

This is absolute nonsense. The US president, wrapping himself in the role of commander in chief, does just about anything he wants if it's even loosely connected to war or security, with or without congressional approval. Surveillance. Torture. Black sites. Assassination. Drone murders. Infinite detention. If he wanted Gitmo closed, he could close it. Congress won't give him the budget? Fine, he could order the closing as a military operation. He doesn't want to take the political heat. I voted for him (2008), but he is without testicular fortitude on this issue.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#54

Post by samholmes » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 5:24 AM UTC

What does this have to do with hacking?

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#55

Post by cmsmith » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 5:25 AM UTC

lbarrow wrote: post #2

The defenders of Gitmo in this era will be remembered by our descendants with the same shame and disgust we feel when remembering the slave holders and segregationists of the previous eras.

I'm not defending gitmo, but why wouldn't we remember its defenders the same way we remember those who have suspended habeas corpus in previous eras [1]?

[1] Abraham Lincoln : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus_in_the_United_Sta...

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#56

Post by Locke1689 » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 5:27 AM UTC

iconjack wrote: post #53

dublinben wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress deserves as much or more blame for this situation. They've prevented the President from carrying out his intended solution to this problem. Without their support, he is powerless to release these people.

This is absolute nonsense. The US president, wrapping himself in the role of commander in chief, does just about anything he wants if it's even loosely connected to war or security, with or without congressional approval. Surveillance. Torture. Black sites. Assassination. Drone murders. Infinite detention. If he wanted Gitmo closed, he could close it. Congress won't give him the budget? Fine, he could order the closi…

Alas, naïveté in the political system. How I knew you.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#57

Post by Zak » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 5:28 AM UTC

laurent123456 wrote: post #49

Zak wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been tried. Somebody should probably try again. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/close-guantanamo-d...

It's strange that the result of the petition is apparently not public. I would expect this kind of petition to largely meet the signature threshold.

I wouldn't. Due process for people who are perceived to be terrorists is not actually an especially popular viewpoint with the majority of the American public[0].

The rest of the world wants due process for these detainees. Most people in hacker communities tend to lean far more libertarian or liberal than the average American and want due process for these detainees. These are not the people who determine the outcome of elections.

[0] http://www.gallup.com/poll/124727/americans-oppose-closing-g...

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#58

Post by wyager » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 5:31 AM UTC

cmsmith wrote: post #55

lbarrow wrote: post #2

The defenders of Gitmo in this era will be remembered by our descendants with the same shame and disgust we feel when remembering the slave holders and segregationists of the previous eras.

I'm not defending gitmo, but why wouldn't we remember its defenders the same way we remember those who have suspended habeas corpus in previous eras [1]? [1] Abraham Lincoln : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus_in_the_United_Sta...

Lincoln was not the man we make him out to be. The Emancipation Proclamation was purely political. Lincoln wanted to split the country and pick up the bigger half.

I suspect that, if not for the Emancipation Proclamation, we might call Lincoln a bad president.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#59

Post by femto » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 5:35 AM UTC

twoodfin wrote: post #37

skyraider wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that the defenders of the legal theories that allow people to be held without trial for many years get their fair share of the blame. Gitmo itself is bad, but the legal theories that let almost anyone be held there without due process are worse. I understand that it looks bad if people released from custody in Gitmo return to action in 'violent non-state actor' groups. But is looking bad in the media worth hum…

I understand that it looks bad if people released from custody in Gitmo return to action in 'violent non-state actor' groups. Just for the record, if you're a victim of one of these released prisoners, it would be more serious for you than simply bad press.

If that is something that needs to be taken into account, we should all be locked up, just in case we do something wrong in the future. If a prisoner has done something wrong charge and try him, otherwise he is innocent and should be released. If we dismantle that principle, we are in far greater danger from our own than from any external force.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#60

Post by jussij » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 5:38 AM UTC

So much for the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.