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Gitmo Is Killing Me

nytimes.com

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Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#171

Post by david927 »

PeterisP wrote: post #156
david927 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the prisoners are ever released without being charged or tried (which won't happen because there's no evidence), they can each file a civil suit against the U.S. Government, each worth potentially hundreds of millions. I think this plays a role as well.

And if they are never released, then it can't happen? Please don't tell me that it's a reasonable (legally or ethically) argument for keeping them imprisoned for decades.

It's the equivalent of keeping the neighbor's daughter in your basement because letting her out would get you into so much trouble.

Gitmo is already shockingly illegal or dangerously unethical; I don't see any interest by the US government to end it and take some of the heat for that.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#172

Post by onli »

rmc wrote: post #162
gsnedders wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I've never once, despite living in the EU for my entire life (in various countries), heard anyone claim the country they live is anything like "the land of the free".

Well, the UK claims to be the "Mother of all Parliaments" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament#Origins , and has songs calling itself "Land of Hope and Glory, Mother of the Free" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Hope_and_Glory ). I know more about UK & Ireland than others, but it's not hard to find other countries similar. France's national anthem ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Marseillaise ) is a song ab…

Honestly, no.

Every country has people in it believing that, and songs accordingly. It is called nationalism, which is more common in some countries then others. If you would say those thinks over here, people would suspect you being a nazi.

This "America is the greatest country on earth"-slogan is pretty specific for the USA. It is so typical that it became a klischee, we call it "american pathos". It is the same category like beauty queens wishing world peace in a country leading two wars. It is the movie independence day with a american president being a jet fighter fighting aliens and saving the world, once again, and us thinking that this fits to the image the USA has of itself. It is right-wing nationalism as a political party (republicans) and 24h on tv (Fox News). It is "god bless america".

And there are those american politicians saying things like "we are the greatest country in the world" and "the land of the free". No other country has that, at least no democratic one and not with the same prevalence, to my knowing.

It is hybris, because in many objective ways, america is the worst countries in the world. Poverty, education, leading wars, prison system, death sentences, amount of guns per capita, killing and abduction of foreign civilians, torture of prisoners, broken democratic system, religious fanatism. No other country fails in so many ways so high, not even your beloved rogue states.

PS: Doesn't mean there are only bad parts, there are even great ones.

PPS: Your examples, "mother of all parliaments" and the tyranny-overthrowal in France, relates to historical events and facts. That is something else than a broad generic claim.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#173

Post by davidw »

andrewfelix wrote: post #155
davidw wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Political articles are off topic on Hacker News.

Firstly, this is not a political article per se. It has political connotations like most things, including hacking. Secondly, it most certainly "gratifies one's intellectual curiosity." http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> Secondly, it most certainly "gratifies one's intellectual curiosity."

Does it really? It looks to me much more like an article meant to engender outrage at something injust in the world.

Note: I'm not saying I don't agree with the outrage, just that it's very much about something highly political and I feel it does not belong here.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#174

Post by Nursie »

rmc wrote: post #164
unclebucknasty wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American Exceptionalism.

$MY_COUNTRY Exceptionalism

I don't know of another country that has it quite so bad. I know of nowhere else in the western world where people fly flags or drape themselves in the flag with anything like the regularity of the US.

It really sticks out compared to everywhere else I've been, and I've travelled to/in 30+ countries now.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#175

Post by jeltz »

vxNsr wrote: post #133
lifeformed wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter if he's guilty or not, he could be Hitler for all I care. He should be charged and tried, not tortured for 10 years.

Should he be? What are the official laws regarding a POW? Certainly not that of naturalized citizens... After skimming the UN Laws for POWs[1] and reading the parts that seemed to deal with internment and time length, it's not really clear to me why he should have to be tried. Once he's be associated with the enemy he can be held until the end of Hostilities at which point the "host" country can decide when and how t…

If he is a POW he should be released since the war was over 10 years ago.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#178

Post by facorreia »

hmottestad wrote: post #138
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #17

Gitmo was the first thing that clued me that I had made a mistake voting for Obama's promises (not that McCain would have ever gotten it instead!). It was such a complete reversal that I immediately knew his promises were completely worthless. I appreciate that there may be anger outs people in Gitmo, but they have every right to a trial I have. The double standard of what human rights mean if you are a US citizen an…

On days like these the US is Guantanamo Bay. The US is poverty and regular people without a home. The US is bad health care, as in only the rich can afford it. The US is drones, fired at civilians in the dead of night. The US is oil, as in that they want it all. The US is guns, like the ones likely to be pointed at you if you get robbed. The US is x-rays at the airport. And finally, the US is the land of the free.

This is not the kind of content I come to Hacker News for.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#179

Post by ptaipale »

breakyerself wrote: post #150
ptaipale wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were sent home, very many of them would be instantly killed, imprisoned or worse. For many of them, Gitmo is probably a lot better than they'd be facing at home.

Thats stupid. You're stupid.

Possibly, but am I wrong?

As far as I understand, this is quite a real problem: no country is willing to receive most of these prisoners, except countries to which the U.S. cannot reasonably send them. Public opinion in the U.S. is hostile towards accepting them as refugees. A few have been placed to Palau, because sending them home to China would be bad and Palau is in no position to refuse such a request. Is that fair? Hardly.

In the U.S., lots of people in principle like to close Gitmo but in practice want the prisoners go to somewhere else, not settle as their own neighbours.

Sorry, I don't have good advice for what to do.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#180

Post by Shivetya »

ThrowawyAcctLOL wrote: post #75
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #17

Gitmo was the first thing that clued me that I had made a mistake voting for Obama's promises (not that McCain would have ever gotten it instead!). It was such a complete reversal that I immediately knew his promises were completely worthless. I appreciate that there may be anger outs people in Gitmo, but they have every right to a trial I have. The double standard of what human rights mean if you are a US citizen an…

> not that McCain would have ever gotten it instead! How are you so sure of that? McCain's neither a saint nor a philosopher-king: his personal narcissism seems to rival Obama's, and he often seems to be successfully flattered and managed by those around him. But he erratically takes stands on principle, and he also has personal experience of both torture and prolonged imprisonment. And in fact he took an anti-tortur…

The real reason there would have been a chance under McCain is that the press, the Democrats in the Congress, and rights groups currently co-opted by the current administration would be all over his ass to close it.

Instead we have a deafening silence from all these groups that used to squawk daily about Gitmo and other government abuses while the other guy was in office.

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