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Gitmo Is Killing Me

nytimes.com

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Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#131

Post by ck2 »

techsupporter wrote: post #112
ck2 wrote: post #10

Obama could order it closed tomorrow. Congress could refuse to fund that action but it would still be ordered closed and his hands would be a tiny bit cleaner. But he likes his drones and gitmo now, so that's pretty much it until Hillary becomes president and I think she likes the idea of gitmo too.

January 22nd, 2009: "EXECUTIVE ORDER -- REVIEW AND DISPOSITION OF INDIVIDUALS DETAINED AT THE GUANTÁNAMO BAY NAVAL BASE AND CLOSURE OF DETENTION FACILITIES By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, in order to effect the appropriate disposition of individuals currently detained by the Department of Defense at the Guantánamo Bay Naval Base (Guantánamo)…

So if that is a standing order - then they are operating Gitmo in clear defiance of a direct order by the President of the United States?

Gitmo is a prison run by the military, and he is the Commander-in-Chief, so every day any soldier performs any duty there - they are in clear violation of command?

Seriously? How does a country operate like this?

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#133

Post by vxNsr »

lifeformed wrote: post #110
vxNsr wrote: post #76

I think the most important part about this OpEd is the comments appearing here and elsewhere: Lots of righteous indignation for this poor fellow who claims that he's completely innocent of any charges brought against him and if he could only talk to someone they would understand. He feels the need to kill himself to prove a point, such conviction. What do they say about a prisoner and his crime? oh yeah: there's no s…

It doesn't matter if he's guilty or not, he could be Hitler for all I care. He should be charged and tried, not tortured for 10 years.

Should he be?

What are the official laws regarding a POW? Certainly not that of naturalized citizens...

After skimming the UN Laws for POWs[1] and reading the parts that seemed to deal with internment and time length, it's not really clear to me why he should have to be tried.

Once he's be associated with the enemy he can be held until the end of Hostilities at which point the "host" country can decide when and how to exchange him with "ex-enemy" . That last part will be a little difficult because I don't think Al-Qaeda takes many prisoners.

That said, they might be violating laws regarding torture but that's a whole nother ball of wax.

[1]http://www.un.org/arabic/preventgenocide/rwanda/text-images/...

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#134

Post by vxNsr »

pavanky wrote: post #101
vxNsr wrote: post #76

I think the most important part about this OpEd is the comments appearing here and elsewhere: Lots of righteous indignation for this poor fellow who claims that he's completely innocent of any charges brought against him and if he could only talk to someone they would understand. He feels the need to kill himself to prove a point, such conviction. What do they say about a prisoner and his crime? oh yeah: there's no s…

You know who else did hunger strikes ? Some old chap named Gandhi.

Nice!

Gandhi also preached and practiced something called "Peaceful Protest" this guy is accused of "associating with"/guarding UBL.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#135

Post by ThrowawyAcctLOL »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #113
ThrowawyAcctLOL wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not that McCain would have ever gotten it instead! How are you so sure of that? McCain's neither a saint nor a philosopher-king: his personal narcissism seems to rival Obama's, and he often seems to be successfully flattered and managed by those around him. But he erratically takes stands on principle, and he also has personal experience of both torture and prolonged imprisonment. And in fact he took an anti-tortur…

This would be the same McCain who, just in December, shot down the idea that Gitmo prisoners could be transferred to the United States, right? http://www.politico.com/story/2012/11/84379.html

Sure. As I think I made clear, I would have little confidence in McCain's willingness to reliably do the right thing in any given situation. (Taking it as read for the moment that agreeing to bring Guantanamo detainees to the US would be the right thing at this point.) But with the combination of stronger external pressure, (maybe) more cooperative Congressional Republicans, and whatever McCain might have felt like doing once President, it seems possible (very far from assured) that he might have made more progress down the military-tribunals route than Obama has made down either that or the US-trials route. (It would be harder to see McCain reversing his consistent opposition to US trials for the detainees.) The strongest reason to think otherwise would seem to be scepticism that anyone could really make the military-tribunal option work efficiently.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#136

Post by davidw »

andrewfelix wrote: post #97
joshuaheard wrote: post #87

Why does HN link to this propaganda?

Dissent is a powerful and useful thing. If you feel this is article is a lie and part of a wider political strategy, then present your case. Making sweeping statements without context or reason will not win you friends on HN. FYI HN doesn't control the links, its users post links and vote on them.

Political articles are off topic on Hacker News.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#137

Post by darklajid »

ptaipale wrote: post #130
gilgoomesh wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need funding. Just send them home. They shouldn't be in any detention center – there is no legal reason to detain them.

If they were sent home, very many of them would be instantly killed, imprisoned or worse. For many of them, Gitmo is probably a lot better than they'd be facing at home.

Let's not forget that this comment of yours is in a thread about a guy sitting in that very same place, _asking_ to get home whatever the price would be. So the whole article that spawned this thread shows a very different position.

That totally ignores my immediate 'citation needed' urges and my shock about this opinion.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#138

Post by hmottestad »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #17

Gitmo was the first thing that clued me that I had made a mistake voting for Obama's promises (not that McCain would have ever gotten it instead!). It was such a complete reversal that I immediately knew his promises were completely worthless. I appreciate that there may be anger outs people in Gitmo, but they have every right to a trial I have. The double standard of what human rights mean if you are a US citizen an…

On days like these the US is Guantanamo Bay. The US is poverty and regular people without a home. The US is bad health care, as in only the rich can afford it. The US is drones, fired at civilians in the dead of night. The US is oil, as in that they want it all. The US is guns, like the ones likely to be pointed at you if you get robbed. The US is x-rays at the airport.

And finally, the US is the land of the free.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#140

Post by jeroen94704 »

Locke1689 wrote: post #51
mattstreet wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I think he could put a bit more public pressure on them then. I really don't hear him bringing it up too often.

It's in his comments on every appropriations bill. You just don't care. Let's all be honest: we don't think about Guantanamo. When people bring it up we'll hem and haw and say, "gee, that's just terrible," but we don't give a shit. Take it out of the spotlight and it may as well not exist.

Yep, that's exactly it. When this link popped up on HN, I read the article and though "wow, that's horrible. Something should be done here!". But tomorrow my mind will be full of other concerns, and a Yemenite I don't know who has been detained without charge or trial for 10 years on a military base far away by a government that is not mine is simply not on my radar.

Sad, and shameful, but true.

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